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Espresso – Google’s peering edge architecture

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Re: Espresso – Google’s peering edge architecture

#11

Post by insaneirish »

dkhenry wrote: post #7

I think with platforms like this it is now safe to say that the systems and services Google is deploying are no longer in the same category as classical networked systems. This is as foreign a concept from traditional networking and the seven layer OSI model as non von Neumann computing is from von neumann computing

> This is as foreign a concept from traditional networking and the seven layer OSI model as non von Neumann computing is from von neumann computing

Not really. The OSI model doesn't say anything about where I run my routing algorithm and BGP application vs. where my actual switches are.

"Classical" networking is an artifact of viewing routers/switches as monolithic blocks that embed all of their functionality in one black box. I said BGP application above because that's what it is, an application for distributing/communicating state. The same can be said for many other parts of networking traditionally embedded in the monolithic blob we often call a router.

Label switched fabrics provide inherent NFV, security functions, and allow you to influence paths (i.e. traffic engineer) from applications that are equipped to make decisions based on your priorities, not some rigid vendor implementation.

You will see more of this.

Re: Espresso – Google’s peering edge architecture

#12

Post by djrogers »

NTDF9 wrote: post #9

Can someone with more expertise summarize how this differs from commercial SDN solutions like: Cisco ACI, Juniper Contrail etc.?

Unfortunately, no - at least not without quite a few more details. As this stands, it could be the high-level marketing overview for pretty much any SDN solution available, commercial or open.

Re: Espresso – Google’s peering edge architecture

#13

Post by NTDF9 »

djrogers wrote: post #12
NTDF9 wrote: post #9

Can someone with more expertise summarize how this differs from commercial SDN solutions like: Cisco ACI, Juniper Contrail etc.?

Unfortunately, no - at least not without quite a few more details. As this stands, it could be the high-level marketing overview for pretty much any SDN solution available, commercial or open.

Thanks!

As someone who recently entered this field professionally, I find it amusing that most SDN solutions out there are just permutations of each other playing over marketing buzzwords.

Not too different from "cloud computing" from a few years ago.

Re: Espresso – Google’s peering edge architecture

#16

Post by joshbaptiste »

dkhenry wrote: post #7

I think with platforms like this it is now safe to say that the systems and services Google is deploying are no longer in the same category as classical networked systems. This is as foreign a concept from traditional networking and the seven layer OSI model as non von Neumann computing is from von neumann computing

Yep.. the CEO of Fastly has some cool presentations on YouTube of their SDN configuration which does away with the traditional router/switch combination for the switch/SDN server combo, which provides a much smarter network at a fraction of the cost. The only caveat is your engineers need to understand and tube the SDN software stack from the network card to the kernel.

Re: Espresso – Google’s peering edge architecture

#17

Post by andrewstuart2 »

grkvlt wrote: post #5
Y_Y wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-by-one errors?

I'm sure he means something to do with caches; I had it on the tip of my tongue a moment ago, but the doorbell rang.

Surely this is what he meant. Since edge peering/CDN is fundamentally caching (last I checked). It can't be off-by-one, and there are only 2 hard problems in CS, so there you have it.

Re: Espresso – Google’s peering edge architecture

#18

Post by tyingq »

insaneirish wrote: post #11
dkhenry wrote: post #7

I think with platforms like this it is now safe to say that the systems and services Google is deploying are no longer in the same category as classical networked systems. This is as foreign a concept from traditional networking and the seven layer OSI model as non von Neumann computing is from von neumann computing

> This is as foreign a concept from traditional networking and the seven layer OSI model as non von Neumann computing is from von neumann computing Not really. The OSI model doesn't say anything about where I run my routing algorithm and BGP application vs. where my actual switches are. "Classical" networking is an artifact of viewing routers/switches as monolithic blocks that embed all of their functionality in one…

I can't speak the the edge stuff they are doing, but the routing closer to the data centers was unique to the way they do things. In a way that wouldn't​ be generally usable.

Not every application can put enough context in the request to make it work the way Google is working. Sort of app request context based routing.

Also, they have the advantage that a lot of their apps are like search, in that no consistency is needed. Five consecutive searches for "some query" can return different results each time, with no adverse effects.

That creates a lot of flexibility in routing requests to destinations.

Re: Espresso – Google’s peering edge architecture

#19

Post by NetStrikeForce »

insaneirish wrote: post #11
dkhenry wrote: post #7

I think with platforms like this it is now safe to say that the systems and services Google is deploying are no longer in the same category as classical networked systems. This is as foreign a concept from traditional networking and the seven layer OSI model as non von Neumann computing is from von neumann computing

> This is as foreign a concept from traditional networking and the seven layer OSI model as non von Neumann computing is from von neumann computing Not really. The OSI model doesn't say anything about where I run my routing algorithm and BGP application vs. where my actual switches are. "Classical" networking is an artifact of viewing routers/switches as monolithic blocks that embed all of their functionality in one…

As someone who works with SDN daily I couldn't agree more with you.

Espresso is making decisions on how to use the application layer, but the underlying layers stay the same.

Re: Espresso – Google’s peering edge architecture

#20

Post by EE84M3i »

smaili wrote: post #6

The essence of what Espresso is begins towards the end of the post: Espresso delivers two key pieces of innovation. First, it allows us to dynamically choose from where to serve individual users based on measurements of how end-to-end network connections are performing in real time. Second, we separate the logic and control of traffic management from the confines of individual router “boxes.”

I found this article confusing. It doesn't really say anything about what "Espresso" actually does, let alone how it does it.
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