Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 27 posts

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#11

Post by ars »

ck2 wrote: post #8
ars wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other counties do NOT have this requirement. That was a reddit fiction (in general if you saw it on reddit you can be pretty sure it's not true). See here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1389688

Hmm, maybe I subconsciously got it from Reddit. Well then the USA can be a pioneer again in something, mitigated greed via sane laws and requirements to prevent billions in damage and wildlife needlessly lost. Just imagine if we get hit by ANOTHER one of these in the next decade, and here's hoping no major hurricanes this summer.

Be careful. There is no difference between a relief well and a regular well.

What do you do if your relief well blows?

Maybe if you drill two simultaneously, making sure they stay in sync. But the relief well needs to intersect with the regular one, so that might not actually be possible.

> and here's hoping no major hurricanes this summer.

Oh no. Quite the opposite! A hurricane would be the best thing possible. It would clean the entire area like nothing else can.

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#12

Post by DrSprout »

ars wrote: post #11
ck2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, maybe I subconsciously got it from Reddit. Well then the USA can be a pioneer again in something, mitigated greed via sane laws and requirements to prevent billions in damage and wildlife needlessly lost. Just imagine if we get hit by ANOTHER one of these in the next decade, and here's hoping no major hurricanes this summer.

Be careful. There is no difference between a relief well and a regular well. What do you do if your relief well blows? Maybe if you drill two simultaneously, making sure they stay in sync. But the relief well needs to intersect with the regular one, so that might not actually be possible. > and here's hoping no major hurricanes this summer. Oh no. Quite the opposite! A hurricane would be the best thing possible. It w…

Theoretically you don't finish the relief well, so you can quickly finish it should the main one blow.

The big risk though is that depending on how good your understanding of the geology is, this could increase your risk.

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#13

Post by tocomment »

GFischer wrote: post #7

My uncle (blacksmith/inventor) is pretty certain that step 1 (cutting the pipe) was a mistake, as he had a solution (which he e-mailed to BP, which of course ignored it) which involved the pipe (and a clamp). OTOH he doesn't have data on the exact pressures and forces involved, so BP probably had far better information on which to act. (and it's far easier to be an armchair engineer!)

Maybe BP should have crowd sourced this problem. Publish all of the data that its engineers have access to. Maybe even offer a prize for a working solution.

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#14

Post by anamax »

GFischer wrote: post #7

My uncle (blacksmith/inventor) is pretty certain that step 1 (cutting the pipe) was a mistake, as he had a solution (which he e-mailed to BP, which of course ignored it) which involved the pipe (and a clamp). OTOH he doesn't have data on the exact pressures and forces involved, so BP probably had far better information on which to act. (and it's far easier to be an armchair engineer!)

Was his solution to crimp the pipe?

The pressure differential between the oil and the water is pretty low (20k barrels/day isn't that much for a pipe that large) so crimping wouldn't require much more energy than bending a pipe without any flow.

However, I don't know if there are ROV attachments that are strong enough and whether there was the required access.

The other problem is that a crimp probably won't result in a complete seal. I don't know if there was room for multiple crimps or their cumulative effect.

On the other hand, crimps would have reduced the flow while the relief well is being drilled.

The other problem with crimps is that they may make it impossible to do other things.

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#15

Post by asmithmd1 »

GFischer wrote: post #7

My uncle (blacksmith/inventor) is pretty certain that step 1 (cutting the pipe) was a mistake, as he had a solution (which he e-mailed to BP, which of course ignored it) which involved the pipe (and a clamp). OTOH he doesn't have data on the exact pressures and forces involved, so BP probably had far better information on which to act. (and it's far easier to be an armchair engineer!)

The pressure of the oil at the leak is 3500 psi.

It is coming out of a 20" dia pipe.

3.1415 * 10^2 * 3500 = ~550 tons of force, about the weight of a 200ft ship

Then throw in a gas/oil 2-phase fluid with different viscosities and varying temperature -- it is not an easy problem to solve

Some good technical info here: http://www.greendump.net/the-oil-drum/deepwater-oil-spill-th...

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#16

Post by GFischer »

asmithmd1 wrote: post #15
GFischer wrote: post #7

My uncle (blacksmith/inventor) is pretty certain that step 1 (cutting the pipe) was a mistake, as he had a solution (which he e-mailed to BP, which of course ignored it) which involved the pipe (and a clamp). OTOH he doesn't have data on the exact pressures and forces involved, so BP probably had far better information on which to act. (and it's far easier to be an armchair engineer!)

The pressure of the oil at the leak is 3500 psi. It is coming out of a 20" dia pipe. 3.1415 * 10^2 * 3500 = ~550 tons of force, about the weight of a 200ft ship Then throw in a gas/oil 2-phase fluid with different viscosities and varying temperature -- it is not an easy problem to solve Some good technical info here: http://www.greendump.net/the-oil-drum/deepwater-oil-spill-th...

Thanks, I'm passing the link and the information to my uncle right now (and I'll ask him for the details of his proposed solution :) )

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#17

Post by ck2 »

ars wrote: post #11
ck2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, maybe I subconsciously got it from Reddit. Well then the USA can be a pioneer again in something, mitigated greed via sane laws and requirements to prevent billions in damage and wildlife needlessly lost. Just imagine if we get hit by ANOTHER one of these in the next decade, and here's hoping no major hurricanes this summer.

Be careful. There is no difference between a relief well and a regular well. What do you do if your relief well blows? Maybe if you drill two simultaneously, making sure they stay in sync. But the relief well needs to intersect with the regular one, so that might not actually be possible. > and here's hoping no major hurricanes this summer. Oh no. Quite the opposite! A hurricane would be the best thing possible. It w…

Hurricane would be good?

Where will the oil disappear to in a hurricane? Alternate dimension? Or simply coating somewhere else on earth it's not supposed to be?

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#18

Post by ck2 »

GFischer wrote: post #7

My uncle (blacksmith/inventor) is pretty certain that step 1 (cutting the pipe) was a mistake, as he had a solution (which he e-mailed to BP, which of course ignored it) which involved the pipe (and a clamp). OTOH he doesn't have data on the exact pressures and forces involved, so BP probably had far better information on which to act. (and it's far easier to be an armchair engineer!)

I can't believe the DIY'ers really think BP is filing their submissions anywhere but the "circular file".

However sometimes when I watch the "oil cam" I secretly wish to see someone in some kind of DIY "iron man" deep-diving outfit suddenly appear and walk over to the pipe and start fixing it themselves, lol.

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#19

Post by giardini »

I find it difficult to believe that the basic mechanism of the BPO is unworkable. It's composed of 4 sequential independent valves, usually hydraulically-activated from a remote location: closing any one of the 4 should shut the well down. It should be possible to disconnect/bypass the communications, electrical, and hydraulic circuitry and manipulate the individual valves directly. The parts are of extremely high quality metals. At the very least several options are available:

a) disconnect the current hydraulics, connect to an alternative hydraulic source and then close one of the valves,

b) disconnect the current hydraulics and use physical methods (e.g., ramrod, jackhammer, wrench etc.) to mechanically force each side of one of the valves closed. In other words, simply screw (in the case of the valve rods being threaded) or beat (if valve rods are smooth) the valve plates into position by hammering on their external valve rods. A jackhammer might work well since, should there be any obstruction in the valve, it should tend to break it up. If the valve rods are threaded, alternately tightening and loosening each side of the valve should tend to break up obstructions.

Re: Graphic: Methods That Have Been Tried to Stop the Leaking Oil

#20

Post by [deleted] »

asmithmd1 wrote: post #15
GFischer wrote: post #7

My uncle (blacksmith/inventor) is pretty certain that step 1 (cutting the pipe) was a mistake, as he had a solution (which he e-mailed to BP, which of course ignored it) which involved the pipe (and a clamp). OTOH he doesn't have data on the exact pressures and forces involved, so BP probably had far better information on which to act. (and it's far easier to be an armchair engineer!)

The pressure of the oil at the leak is 3500 psi. It is coming out of a 20" dia pipe. 3.1415 * 10^2 * 3500 = ~550 tons of force, about the weight of a 200ft ship Then throw in a gas/oil 2-phase fluid with different viscosities and varying temperature -- it is not an easy problem to solve Some good technical info here: http://www.greendump.net/the-oil-drum/deepwater-oil-spill-th...

[deleted]
Post reply on HN