How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex • Hacker News Board

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#11

Post by wyldfire » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:03 AM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #10

wyldfire wrote: post #6

If this happens to you, you should consider talking to: 1. Your state's AG [1] 2. The local TV news 3. Local police I don't think I would call it a "legal scam," it sounds remarkably like fraud. Lots of modern fraud takes place over international VoIP calls, so the fact that there's a brick and mortar business with assets that can be seized means you shouldn't give up quickly. > Even disputing a charge on the credit…

I would love to see the look on their face if one of the people they had on the hook and about to sign somehow worked into the conversation that their uncle was State Attorney General, or a local District Attorney or something like that.

Since there really is a property there, they would probably cleverly slip their application into the "approved" pile.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#12

Post by hprotagonist » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:03 AM UTC

67726e wrote: post #8

hprotagonist wrote: post #3

This is why I vastly prefer to rent on handshake deals and standard lease agreements with homeowners. It's waaaay more human.

I've been burned by a major corporate rental before, and will never do that again. Moving in wasn't a problem, though the "Smart Saver" non-refundable deposit they offered should have been enough of a red flag. Once while on a week long company retreat they upgraded their payment system, which removed my payment information not only causing my rent to be late, but they then filed for eviction after only three days. T…

From me, pulling that sort of horseshit gets you a certified letter notifying you, the landlord, of your impending small claims court date.

Companies that want to play that kind of game don't want to play it with me. Particularly in my state (MA), the law is vastly in my favor, and I am willing and able to spend the time proving that point. I know a lot of people can't, so i'm happy enough to exact some measure of karmic equivalence.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#13

Post by kbenson » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:05 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #11

kbenson wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see the look on their face if one of the people they had on the hook and about to sign somehow worked into the conversation that their uncle was State Attorney General, or a local District Attorney or something like that.

Since there really is a property there, they would probably cleverly slip their application into the "approved" pile.

That's why you mention it before signing. Then they have to make a decision to accept your application and fees and actually rent their cash cow, or to find some other reason to reject you (for something within their discretion) prior to committing to either scam you or rent to you.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#14

Post by joshuaheard » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:08 AM UTC

Landlord here. This tenant made a mistake paying an "administrative fee" of $150, and giving the deposit ($350) without a signed lease. Though, we do charge a $50 application fee to cover the cost of the background check we run.

However, if this company is indeed not intending to rent this property and only collecting the application fees, it would be fraud.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#15

Post by ploxiln » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:14 AM UTC

Maybe you've never attempted to rent an apartment in NYC. They typically require

  * scanned ID
  * recent bank statements
  * recent pay stubs
  * recent tax return or W2
  * letter of employment on official company letterhead
  * company office number they can call to confirm employment
  * last two addresses you lived at
  * letter from previous landlord
  * yearly salary at least 40x (sometimes 50x) monthly rent
  * ~ $100 application fee for background / credit check
  * first months rent, security deposit, and broker's fee, on three separate certified/cashiers checks

The market of renters is very competitive. But also, as a tenant it's possible for you to be a huge problem, and you can be very difficult for them to remove. It's like they assume I might make a huge mess, damage the apartment, never pay rent, and refuse to move out for many months while legal proceedings grind slowly through the courts, and they'll never recover any costs because I'm broke. Even though my bank account statements show I could pay for the whole year up-front.

Compare to when Square shuts down or rejects a seller account with no explanation or recourse, or when Google AdWords does the same. It's because they've been burned by scammers in the past, scammers who are better at looking safe and innocent than honest people. It's just more efficient for them to be draconian and unsympathetic.

I just accept that's how it is. Maybe you take your business elsewhere. You're only out $250, could be way worse, could be thousands ...

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#16

Post by lysp » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:17 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #6

If this happens to you, you should consider talking to: 1. Your state's AG [1] 2. The local TV news 3. Local police I don't think I would call it a "legal scam," it sounds remarkably like fraud. Lots of modern fraud takes place over international VoIP calls, so the fact that there's a brick and mortar business with assets that can be seized means you shouldn't give up quickly. > Even disputing a charge on the credit…

It 100% is fruad.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#17

Post by clamprecht » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:22 AM UTC

Post this to the Austin reddit. Others may have been scammed as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/

If you have the time, sue them in small claims court. Document everything.

Edit: I see you've already posted it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/63azq8/how_i_legall...

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#18

Post by fwefwwfe » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:26 AM UTC

joshuaheard wrote: post #14

Landlord here. This tenant made a mistake paying an "administrative fee" of $150, and giving the deposit ($350) without a signed lease. Though, we do charge a $50 application fee to cover the cost of the background check we run. However, if this company is indeed not intending to rent this property and only collecting the application fees, it would be fraud.

> Then they made a photocopy of our ID for a file. Which again raised my suspicion, I’ve rented many apartment before and none of properties ever asked for that before signing the lease

That sounds like a red flag with the article/author. What apartment place wouldn't do a background check and want ID to make sure they go the right person?

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#19

Post by yaacovtp » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:29 AM UTC

I've used Corelogic as a landlord as well. Any applicant with a reported history of non payment is a big red flag and would likely be denied. I'd compare it to very late credit card payments or a charge off. Not a scam. The employee doing the review would get in trouble for approving this application!

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#20

Post by ubernostrum » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 1:33 AM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #7

exabrial wrote: post #2

Ask them what their minimum credit score is? If they refuse, I'd say you definitely have a legal case to recover your time and lawyer fees

It's a proprietary credit system. Presumably, they have the ability to tweak the system (possibly though a separate agency under similar ownership that is able to report people with post-dated collections). I imagine if someone is familiar enough with the law, they might find that some statutes about credit reporting are broad enough to apply to any credit system, and these people might find themselves under indictme…

This just seems like a property-rental equivalent of the "yo-yo scam" that car dealers do.

The essence of the scam is they carefully let you think you're buying a car when really you're just "applying" for a loan to buy it. They collect a down payment, processing fees, etc., hand you the keys to the car and you drive off... only to get it repossessed a day or two later when "the bank denied your financing". And of course, all the money you gave them is non-refundable, as spelled out in the paperwork you signed. Then they repeat with the next sucker who walks onto the lot.