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Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

medium.com

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Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#11

Post by metricodus »

coldtea wrote: post #9
metricodus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so bad about Dart, if you disregard the "Google is trying to subvert the web" angst from people who have invested heavily in the javascript world? I quite like the optional typing in the language, for instance. I just wish there was more serverside-development happening in Dart - it seems 95% client-side focused at the moment (dart2js and flutter).

> What's so bad about Dart, if you disregard the "Google is trying to subvert the web" angst? I quite like the optional typing in the language, for instance. A new language that doesn't solve anything better than Smalltalk did.

It does provide the feature of optional typing, as I just said. I spent my formative years developing in a language with optional typing and really grew to like it. I think it's a great concept that has missed the mainstream somehow.

Besides from that the syntax is completely different, being inherited from C.

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#13

Post by throwaway7645 »

pacaro wrote: post #3
throwaway7645 wrote: post #2

Lol, I assumed a joke immediately due to the figure and subject, but forgot the date for a second :) Edit: I don't think Smalltalk is a joke, just that HP wouldn't think this a worthy investment.

I think "Sun Microsystems marketing muscle" was what made me raise an eyebrow

They did spend a fortune marketing Java when Smalltalk was poised to be THE new enterprise language.

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#14

Post by throwaway7645 »

derrickdirge wrote: post #7

So is Smalltalk a joke language now?

No the author Richard Eng has been doing a ton of short marketing blog posts trying to get more attention for the language and appears to have an April Fool's sense of humor. He's also been talking about Go a lot which is very different than Smalltalk in all but the simplicity aspect.

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#15

Post by throwaway7645 »

metricodus wrote: post #11
coldtea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's so bad about Dart, if you disregard the "Google is trying to subvert the web" angst? I quite like the optional typing in the language, for instance. A new language that doesn't solve anything better than Smalltalk did.

It does provide the feature of optional typing, as I just said. I spent my formative years developing in a language with optional typing and really grew to like it. I think it's a great concept that has missed the mainstream somehow. Besides from that the syntax is completely different, being inherited from C.

Is optional typing the same thing as gradual typing in Perl6 as in you can specify types, but don't have to?

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#16

Post by metricodus »

throwaway7645 wrote: post #15
metricodus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does provide the feature of optional typing, as I just said. I spent my formative years developing in a language with optional typing and really grew to like it. I think it's a great concept that has missed the mainstream somehow. Besides from that the syntax is completely different, being inherited from C.

Is optional typing the same thing as gradual typing in Perl6 as in you can specify types, but don't have to?

I don't know much about Perl, but this describes Dart's approach to optional typing:

https://www.dartlang.org/articles/language/optional-types

(But meh, it's not really innovative/new as this page says, just not popular.)

Basically, it's a language that allows you to choose the level of type checking. You can be super strict all the time, or only when it matters. Or not at all.

Like all other modern languages it naturally has the basic collection data types built in so that you don't have to reinvent them.

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#17

Post by agumonkey »

pebblexe wrote: post #10

Hopefully they introduce namespaces (like matriona) and the type system of strongtalk with gradual typing. edit: just realized this was an april fools :(

I've a lot of Pharo (ex Squeak) since a few years. Even done a MOOC which was very interesting. I could have believed this blog.

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#18

Post by pacaro »

throwaway7645 wrote: post #13
pacaro wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "Sun Microsystems marketing muscle" was what made me raise an eyebrow

They did spend a fortune marketing Java when Smalltalk was poised to be THE new enterprise language.

I remember all too well. Sun had mindshare at the time too, in a way that the far bigger IBM didn't. I'm just glad none of the 4GLs won

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#19

Post by willtim »

metricodus wrote: post #6
coldtea wrote: post #5

Month aside, it would be a great thing to actually happen... Instead of e.g. Google investing tens of millions on BS like Dart.

What's so bad about Dart, if you disregard the "Google is trying to subvert the web" angst from people who have invested heavily in the javascript world? I quite like the optional typing in the language, for instance. I just wish there was more serverside-development happening in Dart - it seems 95% client-side focused at the moment (dart2js and flutter).

Dart is just a Java-clone by some of the same people and hasn't really incorporated any lessons from 20 years of Java. For example, their answer to Tony Hoare's billion-dollar mistake is... "The Elvis operator"

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#20

Post by willtim »

metricodus wrote: post #11
coldtea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's so bad about Dart, if you disregard the "Google is trying to subvert the web" angst? I quite like the optional typing in the language, for instance. A new language that doesn't solve anything better than Smalltalk did.

It does provide the feature of optional typing, as I just said. I spent my formative years developing in a language with optional typing and really grew to like it. I think it's a great concept that has missed the mainstream somehow. Besides from that the syntax is completely different, being inherited from C.

Decent static typing with inference has also missed the mainstream
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