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Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

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Re: Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

#11

Post by dahdum »

idbehold wrote: post #9
jmcdiesel wrote: post #4

While I find the camera's themselves to be... undesirable.. Why is there a need for a grace period? The yellow is all the grace period you need. If you speed up for or ignore the yellow with time to stop, you're already breaking the law... Not that I'm a fan of the system at all - just, if you're going to do it, do it ... u know?

If yellow lights all had a fixed duration I would agree with you, but unfortunately the length of yellow lights is variable. Additionally yellow lights have no legal rules behind them. They don't mean "slow down", they are simply an indication that the light will be red soon. You are within your rights to accelerate through a yellow light (assuming you're still under the speed limit).

They'll also adjust the yellow light period down to the legal minimum when installing red light cameras, so every other intersection might have a longer yellow around it.

Re: Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

#12

Post by deathhand »

jmcdiesel wrote: post #4

While I find the camera's themselves to be... undesirable.. Why is there a need for a grace period? The yellow is all the grace period you need. If you speed up for or ignore the yellow with time to stop, you're already breaking the law... Not that I'm a fan of the system at all - just, if you're going to do it, do it ... u know?

Because the human reaction time for visual stimulus is .25 seconds. That coupled with less length of time with Yellow lights is a very anti-citizen policy.

Re: Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

#13

Post by differentView »

idbehold wrote: post #9
jmcdiesel wrote: post #4

While I find the camera's themselves to be... undesirable.. Why is there a need for a grace period? The yellow is all the grace period you need. If you speed up for or ignore the yellow with time to stop, you're already breaking the law... Not that I'm a fan of the system at all - just, if you're going to do it, do it ... u know?

If yellow lights all had a fixed duration I would agree with you, but unfortunately the length of yellow lights is variable. Additionally yellow lights have no legal rules behind them. They don't mean "slow down", they are simply an indication that the light will be red soon. You are within your rights to accelerate through a yellow light (assuming you're still under the speed limit).

There needs to be countdown timers on all traffic lights.

Re: Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

#14

Post by daveFNbuck »

jmcdiesel wrote: post #5
SteveNuts wrote: post #2

Good. These should be ruled unconstitutional everywhere. Maybe it's just where I live but it seems like law enforcement is more focused on revenue generation.

Devil's advocate though : you can choose to not be affected by them by simply not running red lights. So.. while I agree on the unconstitutional part (im on your side), the other side of this, its an opt-in system, in practice

When a city prioritizes revenue over safety, everyone is affected. Even if you don't run a red light, you'll still be stuck in traffic when someone else crashes in the middle of the intersection.

Re: Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

#15

Post by eli »

differentView wrote: post #13
idbehold wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If yellow lights all had a fixed duration I would agree with you, but unfortunately the length of yellow lights is variable. Additionally yellow lights have no legal rules behind them. They don't mean "slow down", they are simply an indication that the light will be red soon. You are within your rights to accelerate through a yellow light (assuming you're still under the speed limit).

There needs to be countdown timers on all traffic lights.

Strongly disagree. A reasonable grace period of under a second seems much safer.

Re: Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

#17

Post by eli »

jmcdiesel wrote: post #4

While I find the camera's themselves to be... undesirable.. Why is there a need for a grace period? The yellow is all the grace period you need. If you speed up for or ignore the yellow with time to stop, you're already breaking the law... Not that I'm a fan of the system at all - just, if you're going to do it, do it ... u know?

The point is to keep people safe, right?

Well it is much more dangerous to cross an intersection 20 seconds after the light turns red compared to 0.2 seconds.

Re: Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

#18

Post by valine »

I was rear ended at a stop light because I slowed down for a yellow light while the guy behind me gunned it. Now I'm extremely hesitant to slow down for yellow lights. It has nothing to do with being impatient or disregarding traffic regulations, I simply don't trust the people behind me. I feel much safer speeding up to get through lights.

Re: Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

#19

Post by janzer »

idbehold wrote: post #9
jmcdiesel wrote: post #4

While I find the camera's themselves to be... undesirable.. Why is there a need for a grace period? The yellow is all the grace period you need. If you speed up for or ignore the yellow with time to stop, you're already breaking the law... Not that I'm a fan of the system at all - just, if you're going to do it, do it ... u know?

If yellow lights all had a fixed duration I would agree with you, but unfortunately the length of yellow lights is variable. Additionally yellow lights have no legal rules behind them. They don't mean "slow down", they are simply an indication that the light will be red soon. You are within your rights to accelerate through a yellow light (assuming you're still under the speed limit).

At least in Michigan yellow lights certainly have legal rules enforcing them, from MCL 257.612 (b):

    If the signal exhibits a steady yellow indication, vehicular traffic facing the signal shall stop before entering the nearest crosswalk at the intersection or at a limit line when marked, but if the stop cannot be made in safety, a vehicle may be driven cautiously through the intersection.
And I know of at least one case of someone getting a ticket, challenging it in court and losing after failing to stop for the yellow light.

Edit: Found the relevant Illinois law 625 ILCS 5 Sec. 11-306 (a)1.:

   Vehicular traffic facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter.
So still legally defined but it seems in Illinois the yellow is simply a warning signal and does not include a requirement to stop.

Re: Red-light camera grace period goes from 0.1 to 0.3 seconds, Chicago to lose $17M

#20

Post by chrisseaton »

aggie wrote: post #10
SteveNuts wrote: post #2

Good. These should be ruled unconstitutional everywhere. Maybe it's just where I live but it seems like law enforcement is more focused on revenue generation.

I'm curious to hear why you think it's unconstitutional. It's unobtrusive surveillance in a public setting, so there's no expectation of privacy. It's punishing people for breaking a public-safety law. In most cases they even have signs alerting you to the presence of an enforcement camera. Now I can definitely see how automated enforcement ripe for abuse when there are revenues to be had, and it's concerning when op…

> why you think it's unconstitutional

They didn't say they thought it was unconstitutional. They said they thought it should be unconstitutional.

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