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Blacks with no criminal record have same sucess geting jobs as whites out prison

nytimes.com

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Re: Blacks with no criminal record have same sucess geting jobs as whites out prison

#11

Post by astrodust »

maxerickson wrote: post #8
astrodust wrote: post #4

Are there techniques for neutralizing the effects of things like race during the hiring process that could help make these sorts of decisions more objective? I'm reading The Undoing Project by Michael Lewis and it digs into things like this with great enthusiasm. Making people aware of their own inherent biases and devising criteria that help make objective decisions is not easy, but often necessary. ( https://en.wik…

Blinding. An example is orchestras. They use a screen so that the people deciding between musicians can't see the person auditioning.

You can only get so far with this, that's the problem. Eventually the candidate will show up and people will make snap judgements.

"He's wearing gang clothes" or "I thought he was a rapper" and you're going to have massively skewed data.

A coding interview conducted via online chat only, no voice, could be educational, but it might also over-select those used to texting and online chatting.

Re: Blacks with no criminal record have same sucess geting jobs as whites out prison

#12

Post by misterbowfinger »

He links to a study on unjust school funding:

http://viz.edbuild.org/maps/2016/cola/resource-inequality/#s...

The analysis here is flawed. An example that doesn't make sense is NYC. If you use the dropdown to go to New York and checkout NYC, your conclusion would be that all NYC students are unjustly funded and have much less than everyone else. But.... that makes no sense. New York City has some of the best public schools in the country.

Yes, the funding is imbalanced and unjust. But it doesn't support his claim that it's biased towards whites and asian-americans. Asian-Americans are in many poorer neighborhoods in NYC but perform well in test scores despite the lack of funding.

I should clarify - I'm not saying that school funding shouldn't be more balanced, or that imbalanced funding doesn't have a strong impact in other municipalities. But suggesting a one-to-one mapping of school funding to education quality by race is ridiculous. And yet, people make that lazy argument all the time. No one wants to dig into root causes.

Re: Blacks with no criminal record have same sucess geting jobs as whites out prison

#14

Post by kafkaesq »

misterbowfinger wrote: post #12

He links to a study on unjust school funding: http://viz.edbuild.org/maps/2016/cola/resource-inequality/#s... The analysis here is flawed. An example that doesn't make sense is NYC. If you use the dropdown to go to New York and checkout NYC, your conclusion would be that all NYC students are unjustly funded and have much less than everyone else. But.... that makes no sense. New York City has some of the best public s…

If you use the dropdown to go to New York and checkout NYC, your conclusion would be that all NYC students are unjustly funded and have much less than everyone else. But.... that makes no sense. New York City has some of the best public schools in the country.

No, your conclusion, going by the coloring on the map, would not be that "all NYC students are unjustly funded". But rather, that "On average, NYC students are underfunded compared to the statewide average."

Do you understand the distinction?

Re: Blacks with no criminal record have same sucess geting jobs as whites out prison

#16

Post by misterbowfinger »

kafkaesq wrote: post #14
misterbowfinger wrote: post #12

He links to a study on unjust school funding: http://viz.edbuild.org/maps/2016/cola/resource-inequality/#s... The analysis here is flawed. An example that doesn't make sense is NYC. If you use the dropdown to go to New York and checkout NYC, your conclusion would be that all NYC students are unjustly funded and have much less than everyone else. But.... that makes no sense. New York City has some of the best public s…

If you use the dropdown to go to New York and checkout NYC, your conclusion would be that all NYC students are unjustly funded and have much less than everyone else. But.... that makes no sense. New York City has some of the best public schools in the country. No, your conclusion, going by the coloring on the map, would not be that "all NYC students are unjustly funded". But rather, that "On average, NYC students are…

Yes, exactly! And yet, the schools are still really, really good!

Partially it's because the analysis is at the county level, and not at the district level. But I'd argue that using "averages" in the first place is extremely lossy and a classic Stats 101 mistake.

Re: Blacks with no criminal record have same sucess geting jobs as whites out prison

#17

Post by _m8fo »

I hate to go on my regular rant on this, but anonymous interviewing is the only answer. I could post literally thousands of studies, but everyone is already familiar with one of the more infamous.

Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination

http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873

Re: Blacks with no criminal record have same sucess geting jobs as whites out prison

#18

Post by Shivetya »

misterbowfinger wrote: post #12

He links to a study on unjust school funding: http://viz.edbuild.org/maps/2016/cola/resource-inequality/#s... The analysis here is flawed. An example that doesn't make sense is NYC. If you use the dropdown to go to New York and checkout NYC, your conclusion would be that all NYC students are unjustly funded and have much less than everyone else. But.... that makes no sense. New York City has some of the best public s…

Segregation has always been bad in North but that was and has been continuously swept under the rug for decades. Even Malcolm X called them out on it when everyone was going after the South.

Still I want to see job prospects numbers across fields and education levels. Are we comparing apples to apples here? If you just say "all whites" and "all blacks" that discounts people with good education versus poor ones. So does this trend hold true at all income levels? All education levels? All areas of the country?

Obama blew such an opportunity to change the culture of destruction many black Americans face in cities. He had eight years to lead that change through being inspirational, through challenging the young men and women, even the adults into, working towards a better day for their own children. When your focus is your party and not the people you have made the wrong choice.

Re: Blacks with no criminal record have same sucess geting jobs as whites out prison

#19

Post by anothercomment »

Article talks a lot about blame on white people, yet it doesn't even contain the information that black employers hire differently than white employers.

Also, project implicit, the unconscious bias test referenced in the article, has been debunked: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/01/psychologys-racism-meas...

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