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Pushing Swift to the Server

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Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#11

Post by purple-dragon »

echelon wrote: post #5

Is Swift on the server a good idea? I don't own (or plan to own) a Mac. Does Apple support cross-platform tooling? I honestly don't know, but given their history, my default assumption is to be skeptical. Why would you choose this over Go or Rust? (Rust is totally sweet for server dev, and I've spun up a few Rust servers for things.)

Is it as mature or have as large of a (server-focused) community? No, but I might consider this over Go or Rust because I already know Swift (from iOS development), and I haven't used Go or Rust at all. Fluency and confidence speed development time.

In all honesty though, even though I really like Swift, I'd probably choose something else I already know well like ASP.NET Core until the Swift-on-the-server scene matures.

As for cross-platform capabilities, IBM has contributed a lot of effort to running Swift on Linux and in the cloud. They even have a web-based REPL you can check out.

Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#12

Post by Cthulhu_ »

tyingq wrote: post #4
regularfry wrote: post #2

Wow. That "same language connected by an interface schema would have prevented Mars mission loss" thing is a really thin stretch.

Similar for (roughly) "we ran one benchmark and can now say that swift is similar to java in performance and uses half the memory generally, for all things". No reference to the benchmark either.

That's not hard either, given the nature of both languages (native / compiled vs JVM). Yes I know Java can perform better in some situations.

Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#13

Post by rndmio »

I'd be interested to know if any developers are investing in swift outside of the Apple ecosystem. Given that the language still seems to be in flux (the v2 -> v3 transition didn't appear seamless), why would you pick it?

Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#14

Post by nicoburns »

echelon wrote: post #5

Is Swift on the server a good idea? I don't own (or plan to own) a Mac. Does Apple support cross-platform tooling? I honestly don't know, but given their history, my default assumption is to be skeptical. Why would you choose this over Go or Rust? (Rust is totally sweet for server dev, and I've spun up a few Rust servers for things.)

I think it probably is a good idea (and yes Swift is cross-platform). Mainly just because Swift is really nice language. Personally I would probably prefer to use Rust, but for a developer who is already familiar with Swift it makes a lot of sense.

Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#15

Post by freehunter »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #10
hacker_9 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it matter if it was cross platform if it is running on a server?

Developing on Mac, deploying on Linux, which could be x86 or ARM, etc? MacOS isn't really a server platform, definitely not a cloud OS.

Case in point, Apple's iCloud runs on basically anything but Apple systems (most notably, IMO, Microsoft Azure).

Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#16

Post by jayd16 »

tyingq wrote: post #4
regularfry wrote: post #2

Wow. That "same language connected by an interface schema would have prevented Mars mission loss" thing is a really thin stretch.

Similar for (roughly) "we ran one benchmark and can now say that swift is similar to java in performance and uses half the memory generally, for all things". No reference to the benchmark either.

The reference was shown in the slide. Here is the link: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/spectralnorm.ht...

Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#17

Post by geodel »

echelon wrote: post #5

Is Swift on the server a good idea? I don't own (or plan to own) a Mac. Does Apple support cross-platform tooling? I honestly don't know, but given their history, my default assumption is to be skeptical. Why would you choose this over Go or Rust? (Rust is totally sweet for server dev, and I've spun up a few Rust servers for things.)

It is great convenience for LOB applications when client macOS/iOS app and server backend both written in Swift. Team which knows Swift can be utilized for client/server side of products.

I am afraid that Rust might go Scala way where above average smart dev(s) decide on behalf of team what is best technology. Hence only very small teams and individual developers will use it. Larger teams with mixed skills and multiple locations might stick with boring but reliable technology like Java.

Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#18

Post by gibbitz »

hacker_9 wrote: post #8
echelon wrote: post #5

Is Swift on the server a good idea? I don't own (or plan to own) a Mac. Does Apple support cross-platform tooling? I honestly don't know, but given their history, my default assumption is to be skeptical. Why would you choose this over Go or Rust? (Rust is totally sweet for server dev, and I've spun up a few Rust servers for things.)

Why would it matter if it was cross platform if it is running on a server?

Previous investment in Windows architecture for one. Cross operability with locally running Windows applications for another. Unfortunately though there are obvious solutions to these problems, those who make decisions about spending are often not as concerned about doing it right (IE they already invested in Windows). It's a selling point for adoption. I suspected that with Linux Shell in future Windows Servers Kitura will just run there, but I'm sure there will be performance hiccups doing that (at least compared to native environments).

Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#19

Post by igor_filippov »

geodel wrote: post #17
echelon wrote: post #5

Is Swift on the server a good idea? I don't own (or plan to own) a Mac. Does Apple support cross-platform tooling? I honestly don't know, but given their history, my default assumption is to be skeptical. Why would you choose this over Go or Rust? (Rust is totally sweet for server dev, and I've spun up a few Rust servers for things.)

It is great convenience for LOB applications when client macOS/iOS app and server backend both written in Swift. Team which knows Swift can be utilized for client/server side of products. I am afraid that Rust might go Scala way where above average smart dev(s) decide on behalf of team what is best technology. Hence only very small teams and individual developers will use it. Larger teams with mixed skills and multip…

This reminds me of "Javascript everywhere". Technically yes, but I don't think that language is a main issue for being able to develop both client and server part of the app. Languages can be picked up in a matter of weeks, concepts like good api design, choosing the right database, deployment etc are the real challenge.

Re: Pushing Swift to the Server

#20

Post by leshow »

purple-dragon wrote: post #11
echelon wrote: post #5

Is Swift on the server a good idea? I don't own (or plan to own) a Mac. Does Apple support cross-platform tooling? I honestly don't know, but given their history, my default assumption is to be skeptical. Why would you choose this over Go or Rust? (Rust is totally sweet for server dev, and I've spun up a few Rust servers for things.)

Is it as mature or have as large of a (server-focused) community? No, but I might consider this over Go or Rust because I already know Swift (from iOS development), and I haven't used Go or Rust at all. Fluency and confidence speed development time. In all honesty though, even though I really like Swift, I'd probably choose something else I already know well like ASP.NET Core until the Swift-on-the-server scene matur…

Swift and Rust are remarkably similar if you're familiar with what Swift calls "protocol oriented development" (I think it's called). Really, it's just a version of Haskell's typeclasses in disguise.
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