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You Don't Get AMP

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Re: You Don't Get AMP

#11

Post by quarterto »

CaptSpify wrote: post #7
quarterto wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the point: AMP allows far richer pages than just totally cutting out Javascript. Like it or not, the web is an application platform.

What does amp give me that a non-js page can't? Also, applications aren't the target for amp.

Can you write a carousel without JS? A live blog? Lazy loading images and ads? A stateful e-commerce product page?

Have a look through the list of AMP components, you'll be surprised what's possible. https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components

Re: You Don't Get AMP

#13

Post by owebmaster »

quarterto wrote: post #9
soared wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does cloudflare take users to a webpage that isn't yours with a header with a button that doesn't lead to your site?

The page is still yours. You have absolute control over the branding, the analytics, the monetisation. Just because it happens not to be served from your domain doesn't mean it's not yours. Let's also not forget that AMP is actively encouraging alternative caches: Cloudflare Ampersand[1] was announced literally an hour after my post. It's a whitelabelled AMP cache aimed at solving this exact problem. [1]: https://www…

> Just because it happens not to be served from your domain doesn't mean it's not yours.

This is exactly what means not be yours. It's Google and they lease it to you.

Re: You Don't Get AMP

#14

Post by soared »

quarterto wrote: post #9
soared wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does cloudflare take users to a webpage that isn't yours with a header with a button that doesn't lead to your site?

The page is still yours. You have absolute control over the branding, the analytics, the monetisation. Just because it happens not to be served from your domain doesn't mean it's not yours. Let's also not forget that AMP is actively encouraging alternative caches: Cloudflare Ampersand[1] was announced literally an hour after my post. It's a whitelabelled AMP cache aimed at solving this exact problem. [1]: https://www…

Yes you still control most of it. My argument is that the traffic /would/ be going to your actual site (where you aren't limited at all) but now it is going to a google AMP page with strict limitations. Which isn't great, but the big deal is that bar on top that doesn't link to your site. That is so bad for your site and massively increases the bounce rate.

Re: You Don't Get AMP

#15

Post by CaptSpify »

quarterto wrote: post #10
CaptSpify wrote: post #8

Oh, I get AMP just fine. I get that it's a power play by Google. The problem AMP is trying to solve is very real. But instead of trying to fix the problem, Google is using it to take an even greater chunk of the web. No thanks

> Google gonna Google. They’ve been dangling carrots in front of publishers for twenty-one years.

I don't buy it. If that's true, how come all of the top results I get are slow, heavy bloated sites, yet small, simple, fast sites are ~10 pages deep?

Re: You Don't Get AMP

#16

Post by quarterto »

soared wrote: post #14
quarterto wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The page is still yours. You have absolute control over the branding, the analytics, the monetisation. Just because it happens not to be served from your domain doesn't mean it's not yours. Let's also not forget that AMP is actively encouraging alternative caches: Cloudflare Ampersand[1] was announced literally an hour after my post. It's a whitelabelled AMP cache aimed at solving this exact problem. [1]: https://www…

Yes you still control most of it. My argument is that the traffic /would/ be going to your actual site (where you aren't limited at all) but now it is going to a google AMP page with strict limitations. Which isn't great, but the big deal is that bar on top that doesn't link to your site. That is so bad for your site and massively increases the bounce rate.

That is a sticking point for me. Alternative AMP caches (with alternative UX, e.g. Ampersand generally keeps users on your site when they bounce) go some way towards solving this, but they're not (yet?) first-class ecosystem citizens:

> But these are just guidelines, and Google can’t guarantee they’re behaving well, so they’re not first-class citizens.

> I’d love for this to be something you could statically verify, just like AMP HTML, so that anybody could add a Cache to the ecosystem and get a lightning bolt on Google search results and Cloudflare links and Twitter Moments™, but I’m pretty sure this reduces to the Halting Problem.

Re: You Don't Get AMP

#17

Post by CaptSpify »

quarterto wrote: post #11
CaptSpify wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does amp give me that a non-js page can't? Also, applications aren't the target for amp.

Can you write a carousel without JS? A live blog? Lazy loading images and ads? A stateful e-commerce product page? Have a look through the list of AMP components, you'll be surprised what's possible. https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components

Good examples, but none of that is anything that I want. I'd much prefer small, simple, static pages to any of that. Additionally, they will load faster, and be easier to read. Those things are just trimming pages down to what Google wants, not users.

Re: You Don't Get AMP

#18

Post by goodplay »

quarterto wrote: post #9
soared wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does cloudflare take users to a webpage that isn't yours with a header with a button that doesn't lead to your site?

The page is still yours. You have absolute control over the branding, the analytics, the monetisation. Just because it happens not to be served from your domain doesn't mean it's not yours. Let's also not forget that AMP is actively encouraging alternative caches: Cloudflare Ampersand[1] was announced literally an hour after my post. It's a whitelabelled AMP cache aimed at solving this exact problem. [1]: https://www…

For now.

AMP is a PROXY/MITM service, with all the perks that come from being such a service. There is nothing stopping google ,or whatever company owns them after they become a Yahoo!, from changing their "policy" to better be aligned with their interests.

Re: You Don't Get AMP

#19

Post by quarterto »

CaptSpify wrote: post #15
quarterto wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google gonna Google. They’ve been dangling carrots in front of publishers for twenty-one years.

I don't buy it. If that's true, how come all of the top results I get are slow, heavy bloated sites, yet small, simple, fast sites are ~10 pages deep?

Sure, speed should be a ranking factor, but I'd much rather have a slow site that's relevant than a fast one that isn't.

Re: You Don't Get AMP

#20

Post by CaptSpify »

quarterto wrote: post #19
CaptSpify wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it. If that's true, how come all of the top results I get are slow, heavy bloated sites, yet small, simple, fast sites are ~10 pages deep?

Sure, speed should be a ranking factor, but I'd much rather have a slow site that's relevant than a fast one that isn't.

How about a relevant page that is fast. We can have the best of both worlds.
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