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A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

theguardian.com

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Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#11

Post by wheelerwj »

mulletbum wrote: post #5
wheelerwj wrote: post #3

this topic has been beaten to death to the point that there isn't a lot to comment on anymore. But it's still a critical issue (even in 2017). so, this is me, upvoting for visibility. also, id go so far as to say that while we should have the right to repair/hack our own devices, I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch. Should I be able to fix my tractor, absolutely. But I don't…

Should that open the market for third party manufacturers then to provide parts?

Of course. People do that already. If you can reverse engineer it (or get it close), isn't that okay?

I don't think anyone would condone a manufacturer like Foxcon ln selling parts independently, but that stuff is handled contractually anyways.

Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#12

Post by revelation »

zardo wrote: post #8
wheelerwj wrote: post #3

this topic has been beaten to death to the point that there isn't a lot to comment on anymore. But it's still a critical issue (even in 2017). so, this is me, upvoting for visibility. also, id go so far as to say that while we should have the right to repair/hack our own devices, I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch. Should I be able to fix my tractor, absolutely. But I don't…

Well... the EPA might not weigh in this time. They require 'tamper resistant' emission control systems. Making it easy for customers to change the software could put you in a bad situation. Essentially, the same one VW is in, a $35,000 per vehicle fine.

Given the "coal rolling" trucks, those big fines still have yet to hit their target?

Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#13

Post by BEEdwards »

AckSyn wrote: post #9
wheelerwj wrote: post #3

this topic has been beaten to death to the point that there isn't a lot to comment on anymore. But it's still a critical issue (even in 2017). so, this is me, upvoting for visibility. also, id go so far as to say that while we should have the right to repair/hack our own devices, I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch. Should I be able to fix my tractor, absolutely. But I don't…

> I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch I don't think it's a stretch at all. If they've already manufactured the parts, requiring them to sell replacement parts to customers really should be a thing. Holding them back because of shitty IP laws and strangling their ability to get things running is bad form and anti consumer

I agree with the sentiment, but they may be doing JIT production and literally only have parts to build however many units they build for a day.

Allowing third parties to make the parts is the way to go.

Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#14

Post by Broken_Hippo »

zardo wrote: post #8
wheelerwj wrote: post #3

this topic has been beaten to death to the point that there isn't a lot to comment on anymore. But it's still a critical issue (even in 2017). so, this is me, upvoting for visibility. also, id go so far as to say that while we should have the right to repair/hack our own devices, I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch. Should I be able to fix my tractor, absolutely. But I don't…

Well... the EPA might not weigh in this time. They require 'tamper resistant' emission control systems. Making it easy for customers to change the software could put you in a bad situation. Essentially, the same one VW is in, a $35,000 per vehicle fine.

But that doesn't mean the farmers shoudln't be able to work on the system itself if it is broken, using readouts from the system as a guide to fixing it. This might mean, however, that instead of being able to fix the software itself, they have to buy a new drive, exchanging in the old one in the process. This small bit is a reasonable request because folks can be highly motivated to cheat otherwise.

Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#15

Post by sqeaky »

BEEdwards wrote: post #13
AckSyn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch I don't think it's a stretch at all. If they've already manufactured the parts, requiring them to sell replacement parts to customers really should be a thing. Holding them back because of shitty IP laws and strangling their ability to get things running is bad form and anti consumer

I agree with the sentiment, but they may be doing JIT production and literally only have parts to build however many units they build for a day. Allowing third parties to make the parts is the way to go.

What about mandating the release of specifications for every part?

Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#16

Post by jackcosgrove »

This is a big issue for farmers. I have family who are farmers and the secret to their success is that they are mainly mechanics who fix their own equipment. If you have to rely on other people to fix your equipment your margins disappear quickly.

Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#17

Post by ryandrake »

zardo wrote: post #8
wheelerwj wrote: post #3

this topic has been beaten to death to the point that there isn't a lot to comment on anymore. But it's still a critical issue (even in 2017). so, this is me, upvoting for visibility. also, id go so far as to say that while we should have the right to repair/hack our own devices, I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch. Should I be able to fix my tractor, absolutely. But I don't…

Well... the EPA might not weigh in this time. They require 'tamper resistant' emission control systems. Making it easy for customers to change the software could put you in a bad situation. Essentially, the same one VW is in, a $35,000 per vehicle fine.

The EPA can say "tamper resistant," but I call it "repair resistant".

I object to the word "tamper" because implies that even though I am the owner of the car I somehow require authorization to work on it.

Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#18

Post by sqeaky »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #6
daveloyall wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how Nebraska's LB67 would defeat Apple's remote-wipe-for-lost-phones feature. Would you elaborate?

I assume the poster is not referring to remote wipe, but the fact that it is literally impossible to crack into an iPhone associated to an Apple account you can't authenticate. If an iDevice is iCloud locked and you don't have that password, it's a brick.

It is not literally impossible, it is just beyond the grasp of petty thieves at the moment.

Wait until one guy releases a walkthrough on the the two pins you cross or the steps to remove some chip and add a new (or worst case blast some part of an SOC with a laser), then all the geek friends of those pretty criminals will take a stab at it.

Its not like the criminals themselves are doing much with phones and laptops they steal currently. They just sell them for pennies on the dollar to some shop that won't ask questions. The shop wipes the machines, resets keys or does whatever they will do. If the procedure is more involved the shop will pay less for iPhones to offset their costs, which could still deter thievery, but we can't expect it to always be "literally impossible".

Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#19

Post by kodis »

AckSyn wrote: post #9
wheelerwj wrote: post #3

this topic has been beaten to death to the point that there isn't a lot to comment on anymore. But it's still a critical issue (even in 2017). so, this is me, upvoting for visibility. also, id go so far as to say that while we should have the right to repair/hack our own devices, I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch. Should I be able to fix my tractor, absolutely. But I don't…

> I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch I don't think it's a stretch at all. If they've already manufactured the parts, requiring them to sell replacement parts to customers really should be a thing. Holding them back because of shitty IP laws and strangling their ability to get things running is bad form and anti consumer

Also, car manufacturers are currently required to make replacement parts available for some period of time -- something like ten years after each model year. So no, not a stretch at all.

Re: A right to repair: Why Nebraska farmers are taking on John Deere and Apple

#20

Post by omouse »

wheelerwj wrote: post #3

this topic has been beaten to death to the point that there isn't a lot to comment on anymore. But it's still a critical issue (even in 2017). so, this is me, upvoting for visibility. also, id go so far as to say that while we should have the right to repair/hack our own devices, I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch. Should I be able to fix my tractor, absolutely. But I don't…

I think legally requiring the producer supply OEM parts is a bit of a stretch.

It's not a stretch. This is equipment that should last a while and you should be able to get replacement parts. This isn't a single-use phone that will be thrown out and recycled.

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