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12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

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Re: 12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

#11

Post by contingencies »

da02 wrote: post #8
contingencies wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably only know a few hundred people here, and there are multiple people starting businesses every year. 1 in 50,000 per day = 1 in ~136 per year. That sounds about right, perhaps even low.

What do they use as investment? Personal savings, loans, VC?

It depends upon the business. Startup costs are low here, and some businesses can be started and validated without registration or paperwork. Where formalization is a requirement, agents can register companies as cheaply as a couple of hundred USD, including a registered address. At the low end people use personal savings and family loans. At a slightly larger level friends tend to group together to reach capital requirements. Banks do loan but that's not as easy as it once was. There are government payouts available for specific sectors or achievements (eg. if patents are registered). At the higher end there is strong VC availability right now due to a combination of a relative crisis of faith (ie. no longer "it can never lose money!") in real estate, which was formerly the medium to long term investment traditionally considered most accessibly performant, and increased controls on cross-border capital flight.

Re: 12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

#12

Post by kitschshrine »

dvcc wrote: post #2

So I had some doubts about the numbers at first, but a rough quick calculation 12,000 / (1.3 billion (people) * .5 (age 25-54)) ≈ 0.002% of the available population a day creating a startup (1 in every 50,000) which does not seem too far-fetched, but still seems a bit high to be honest.

it's a lie, much like the government's made up 7% gdp growth.

"China's liaoning province admitted that it inflated GDP figures from 2011 to 2014"

https://qz.com/887709/chinas-liaoning-province-admitted-that...

Re: 12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

#13

Post by kitschshrine »

ausjke wrote: post #10

my friend went there and opened one a few years ago. it's relatively easy to open one I was told but it's super painful to close that, even though it's a small startup and financially clean, still do not know how he could ever close that, many procedures, paperwork, financial check everything he could not supply as a small player,etc. it's just impossible to close i guess. basically it looks to me that it's a easy-in…

Why would any foreigner want to start a company in a country that

- requires you to give up 50% to a local partner

- blocks internet access to foreign websites (thus foreign customers)

- can take away your business/assets/customers without trials

- treats foreigners as a mere entity to steal technology and clients from?

Re: 12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

#14

Post by juice_bus »

kitschshrine wrote: post #13
ausjke wrote: post #10

my friend went there and opened one a few years ago. it's relatively easy to open one I was told but it's super painful to close that, even though it's a small startup and financially clean, still do not know how he could ever close that, many procedures, paperwork, financial check everything he could not supply as a small player,etc. it's just impossible to close i guess. basically it looks to me that it's a easy-in…

Why would any foreigner want to start a company in a country that - requires you to give up 50% to a local partner - blocks internet access to foreign websites (thus foreign customers) - can take away your business/assets/customers without trials - treats foreigners as a mere entity to steal technology and clients from?

Likely the allure of so many potential customers that are otherwise inaccessible. (I'm not saying this is a valid reason to ignore the above, but potentially why some might.)

Re: 12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

#15

Post by credit_guy »

contingencies wrote: post #4
dvcc wrote: post #2

So I had some doubts about the numbers at first, but a rough quick calculation 12,000 / (1.3 billion (people) * .5 (age 25-54)) ≈ 0.002% of the available population a day creating a startup (1 in every 50,000) which does not seem too far-fetched, but still seems a bit high to be honest.

I probably only know a few hundred people here, and there are multiple people starting businesses every year. 1 in 50,000 per day = 1 in ~136 per year. That sounds about right, perhaps even low.

I would think on average a startup starts with more than one person.

Re: 12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

#16

Post by lacampbell »

kitschshrine wrote: post #13
ausjke wrote: post #10

my friend went there and opened one a few years ago. it's relatively easy to open one I was told but it's super painful to close that, even though it's a small startup and financially clean, still do not know how he could ever close that, many procedures, paperwork, financial check everything he could not supply as a small player,etc. it's just impossible to close i guess. basically it looks to me that it's a easy-in…

Why would any foreigner want to start a company in a country that - requires you to give up 50% to a local partner - blocks internet access to foreign websites (thus foreign customers) - can take away your business/assets/customers without trials - treats foreigners as a mere entity to steal technology and clients from?

100% agreed. I would never try and start a business in such a poisonous environment.

Re: 12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

#17

Post by Gabriel_h »

kitschshrine wrote: post #9
da02 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's most likely a jumping off point. One way to learn painting in the past was to copy paintings made by masters. So as the economy develops and more people can afford to take risks, innovations should be more common (unless govt intervention prevents it). Japan was viewed upon as a land of where cheap imitations were made.

They've been saying that since the Chinese economy opened up in the 80s, really opened up in the 90s, really really opened up in the 2000s. so far, nothing in 35 years. Japan had so much innovations in way less time. meanwhile China's economy is crashing down, and no more free FDI to fuel any further progress

I have a few anecdotal examples of innovations or ways in which China is 'ahead':

Bike-sharing startups like MoBike: Use their app to find the nearest bike to you, scan a QR code to unlock it, and pay $0.15 for one hour. You can then ride and leave it anywhere. Admittedly, this is only possible due to v. high urban density (China has ten cities with populations greater than London and similar urban densities).

I can order a lot from the same app/interface: takeaway, cinema tickets, hotels, flights, KTV, etc. I find this more convenient than UK. Mobile payment penetration here is very high here too. Almost everyone pays for almost everything with WeChat.

Andrew Ng argues that AI progress in China is underreported due to the language barrier. I suspect this insight applies more generally to all the innovations happening here.

*https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/02/china...

Re: 12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

#18

Post by candiodari »

kitschshrine wrote: post #13
ausjke wrote: post #10

my friend went there and opened one a few years ago. it's relatively easy to open one I was told but it's super painful to close that, even though it's a small startup and financially clean, still do not know how he could ever close that, many procedures, paperwork, financial check everything he could not supply as a small player,etc. it's just impossible to close i guess. basically it looks to me that it's a easy-in…

Why would any foreigner want to start a company in a country that - requires you to give up 50% to a local partner - blocks internet access to foreign websites (thus foreign customers) - can take away your business/assets/customers without trials - treats foreigners as a mere entity to steal technology and clients from?

> - requires you to give up 50% to a local partner

Chinese people. Don't worry, there's plenty. And they do not have subpar education, nor do they have less intellectual capacity (hell, most studies seem to conclude they have -just a little- more, on average).

> - blocks internet access to foreign websites (thus foreign customers)

I think you'll find that inbound commerce (or outbound commerce) is not all that restricted. Some movies, yes. And newspapers (do they still exist ?). That's about it. Other than that, it's not more restricted than in the west (ie. large amounts expenditures require government/irs/... approval one way or the other).

> - can take away your business/assets/customers without trials

It's not like Japan did it for 30 years before that ... By the way ... how did the US get started on it's industrial base ? Could it have been copying ?

> - treats foreigners as a mere entity to steal technology and clients from?

Again, one wonders how Europeans think about America in this area. Yep, similarly.

Re: 12,000 startups are being created every day in China [video]

#19

Post by matz1 »

kitschshrine wrote: post #13
ausjke wrote: post #10

my friend went there and opened one a few years ago. it's relatively easy to open one I was told but it's super painful to close that, even though it's a small startup and financially clean, still do not know how he could ever close that, many procedures, paperwork, financial check everything he could not supply as a small player,etc. it's just impossible to close i guess. basically it looks to me that it's a easy-in…

Why would any foreigner want to start a company in a country that - requires you to give up 50% to a local partner - blocks internet access to foreign websites (thus foreign customers) - can take away your business/assets/customers without trials - treats foreigners as a mere entity to steal technology and clients from?

Its high risk but the potential return is also great.
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