Live data from Hacker News

BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

bugs.chromium.org

11–20 of 216 posts

Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

#11
post #10

The long-term solution is simply not to work anywhere that insists on running a MITM attack on all of your communications.

Isn't MITM required in enterprise environments where they want to filter content? Unless you want to run it client-side which isn't usually an option.

Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

#12

Note that this happens even when using a BlueCoat proxy in non-MITM mode. BlueCoat tries to "analyze" TLS connections, and rejects anything it doesn't understand. This exact issue occurred with TLS 1.2 back when BlueCoat only understood 1.1/1.0. In this case, it doesn't sound like they're reverting it because of overall breakage, but rather because it breaks the tool that would otherwise be used to control TLS 1.3 tr…

This exact issue occurred with TLS 1.2 back when BlueCoat only understood 1.1/1.0. Good grief! From David Benjamin's final comment: Note these issues are always bugs in the middlebox products. TLS version negotiation is backwards compatible, so a correctly-implemented TLS-terminating proxy should not require changes to work in a TLS-1.3-capable ecosystem. It can simply speak TLS 1.2 at both client proxy and proxy ser…

It sounds like it might be a worthwhile effort to reverse engineer one of those.

Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

#14
post #10

The long-term solution is simply not to work anywhere that insists on running a MITM attack on all of your communications.

Isn't MITM required in enterprise environments where they want to filter content? Unless you want to run it client-side which isn't usually an option.

> Isn't MITM required in enterprise environments where they want to filter content?

Then don't filter content.

Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

#15
post #10

The long-term solution is simply not to work anywhere that insists on running a MITM attack on all of your communications.

Isn't MITM required in enterprise environments where they want to filter content? Unless you want to run it client-side which isn't usually an option.

There are ways to filter content without breaking user privacy. For example, you could restrict access to the Internet altogether, and suggest that your users only get what they need from your internal corporate network. See how incredibly productive that makes your staff?

What these "enterprise environments" want is to leech off the Internet's knowledge while keeping a firm chokehold on the privacy of their own employees Sadly, it looks like Google is caving in to their pressure.

Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

#16
post #10

The long-term solution is simply not to work anywhere that insists on running a MITM attack on all of your communications.

It's my understanding that BlueCoat is used pretty heavily in some schools. Most of the students there don't have the option of "working" somewhere else.

Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

#17
post #10

The long-term solution is simply not to work anywhere that insists on running a MITM attack on all of your communications.

I'm sure the students of the Montgomery County, Maryland public school system, who are affected by this problem, will take your advice into consideration when submitting resumes to other public schools.

Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

#18

I guess in future, TLS upgrades will be opt-in?

This is something the TLS spec authors have prepared against with GREASE. The idea is the client adds some junk version information to its list of supported protocols. To quote: "Correct server implementations will ignore these values and interoperate. Servers that do not tolerate unknown values will fail to interoperate with existing clients, revealing the mistake before it is widespread."

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davidben-tls-grease-00

Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

#19
post #10

The long-term solution is simply not to work anywhere that insists on running a MITM attack on all of your communications.

This is legally required in some sectors for regulation purposes, notably finance. I think a lot of people who casually throw out this sentiment don't appreciate that aspect of it.

Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't MITM required in enterprise environments where they want to filter content? Unless you want to run it client-side which isn't usually an option.

There are ways to filter content without breaking user privacy. For example, you could restrict access to the Internet altogether, and suggest that your users only get what they need from your internal corporate network. See how incredibly productive that makes your staff? What these "enterprise environments" want is to leech off the Internet's knowledge while keeping a firm chokehold on the privacy of their own empl…

> Sadly, it looks like Google is finally caving in to their pressure. Maybe someone like Mozilla won't.

All browser vendors provide the necessary bits for properly implemented HTTPS MITM, and have done so for ages (which are fairly simple, basically "allow local trusted certificate roots and ignore key pinning for them").

Post reply on HN