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Who Needs GPS? The Story of Etak's 1985 Car Navigation System

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Re: Who Needs GPS? The Story of Etak's 1985 Car Navigation System

#11

Post by mmastrac »

Animats wrote: post #9

I saw Etak back in its early days, and Stan Honey gave me a demo. I still have one of their rate gyro/2D level units, and a compass unit. There's a motor driving a spinning disk, which warps slightly when the unit is turned, and sensors to detect the warp. The level, for sensing which way is down, is a sealed cup of liquid with the liquid height sensed with four capacitor plates outside the cup. The liquid was propri…

> about 20% of the population could not cope with a map that wasn't aligned with the direction they were going

That's me. I have a tough time orienting maps in my head. I still use a mnemonic for compass directions and (occasionally) use my left hand as an L to make sure I'm not screwing it up.

I don't know if there is any research into what the structural differences of brains that suffer from this might be, let alone if there is a name for it.

Re: Who Needs GPS? The Story of Etak's 1985 Car Navigation System

#12

Post by aplusbi »

mmastrac wrote: post #11
Animats wrote: post #9

I saw Etak back in its early days, and Stan Honey gave me a demo. I still have one of their rate gyro/2D level units, and a compass unit. There's a motor driving a spinning disk, which warps slightly when the unit is turned, and sensors to detect the warp. The level, for sensing which way is down, is a sealed cup of liquid with the liquid height sensed with four capacitor plates outside the cup. The liquid was propri…

> about 20% of the population could not cope with a map that wasn't aligned with the direction they were going That's me. I have a tough time orienting maps in my head. I still use a mnemonic for compass directions and (occasionally) use my left hand as an L to make sure I'm not screwing it up. I don't know if there is any research into what the structural differences of brains that suffer from this might be, let alo…

It sounds like you might have some form of Topographical Disorientation: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25578-mindscapes-the-...

Every once in awhile (maybe a couple times a month) I'll have this sort of experience (though not as dramatic) where everything is a mirror image. I expect a store to be on the opposite side of the street for example, and it's momentarily disorienting. I've learned to not rely on my intuition when navigating.

Re: Who Needs GPS? The Story of Etak's 1985 Car Navigation System

#14

Post by mmastrac »

aplusbi wrote: post #12
mmastrac wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> about 20% of the population could not cope with a map that wasn't aligned with the direction they were going That's me. I have a tough time orienting maps in my head. I still use a mnemonic for compass directions and (occasionally) use my left hand as an L to make sure I'm not screwing it up. I don't know if there is any research into what the structural differences of brains that suffer from this might be, let alo…

It sounds like you might have some form of Topographical Disorientation: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25578-mindscapes-the-... Every once in awhile (maybe a couple times a month) I'll have this sort of experience (though not as dramatic) where everything is a mirror image. I expect a store to be on the opposite side of the street for example, and it's momentarily disorienting. I've learned to not rely on my…

Interesting, it might be related. I only have it while driving or walking in unfamiliar places, but it does sound very similar.

The article notes that the researcher who diagnosed her lives in the same city I do.

Re: Who Needs GPS? The Story of Etak's 1985 Car Navigation System

#16

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #4
teddyh wrote: post #2

Interesting to read about alternative, non-centralized, forms of navigation. I wish modern cars which already have all the necessary sensors would use this method as a fallback, since GPS reception is not always available.

It would also be helpful in case of a hacking event: if the car's local sensors deviate from the gps data significantly, that should throw up a red flag to the car and driver.

> if the car's local sensors deviate from the gps data significantly, that should throw up a red flag to the car and driver.

This happens too often for benign reasons (and GPS hacking too rare) for it to be useful. The GPS system in my Ford Focus jumps around wildly if I start the car in an enclosed space before it gets a good lock, and it can be thrown-off under bridges and around tall buildings as it doesn't have A-GPS (does any car have A-GPS?). The worst is when a poor signal is combined with road-snapping - I've had a lot of trouble with off-ramps on partially submerged urban highways, the I-5 in downtown Seattle, for example.

Re: Who Needs GPS? The Story of Etak's 1985 Car Navigation System

#17

Post by anfractuosity »

Regarding dead reckoning - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10833087/MoD-crea... seems very interesting.

If anyone has any up to date information or papers on this approach, I'd be very interested.

(It seems to be also known as a quantum compass)

Re: Who Needs GPS? The Story of Etak's 1985 Car Navigation System

#18

Post by learn_more »

mmastrac wrote: post #11
Animats wrote: post #9

I saw Etak back in its early days, and Stan Honey gave me a demo. I still have one of their rate gyro/2D level units, and a compass unit. There's a motor driving a spinning disk, which warps slightly when the unit is turned, and sensors to detect the warp. The level, for sensing which way is down, is a sealed cup of liquid with the liquid height sensed with four capacitor plates outside the cup. The liquid was propri…

> about 20% of the population could not cope with a map that wasn't aligned with the direction they were going That's me. I have a tough time orienting maps in my head. I still use a mnemonic for compass directions and (occasionally) use my left hand as an L to make sure I'm not screwing it up. I don't know if there is any research into what the structural differences of brains that suffer from this might be, let alo…

If you train yourself to use a static orientation however, you develop a much better "big picture" awareness of the city you drive in, eventually freeing yourself from requiring navigational assistance.

The additional cognitive load is worth it for me.

Re: Who Needs GPS? The Story of Etak's 1985 Car Navigation System

#19

Post by LordKano »

TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #5
teddyh wrote: post #2

Interesting to read about alternative, non-centralized, forms of navigation. I wish modern cars which already have all the necessary sensors would use this method as a fallback, since GPS reception is not always available.

I think some smartphone navigation apps do temporary dead reckoning, using the accelerometers that are built into the phone. Dead reckoning using just acceleration data loses accuracy quickly. Using turns to reset position is a really good idea. I think I've seen my iPhone do a similar "recovery" procedure when it gets a little off track.

I have had my Android phone continues to plot my travel through a tunnel when it couldn't receive GPS signal. It's usually off by a small margin when I reach the end of the tunnel but everything syncs once the signal is acquired again.
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