By the same logic the person who was put out of work by a piece of software made by Microsoft should result in the company using the Microsoft product to create value should be taxed as well. Right? So his statement that robot companies should not be concerned is pretty disingenuous if you ask me. Of course they will be concerned along with the companies. We should be coming up with incentives to give people jobs rather than negative reasons to stop them from disappearing. Like would many companies hire more people if the government paid them a subsidy to hire more people? Probably they would. Those same people pay income tax so it middles out or something.. :)
Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
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Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
#12Seriously?
We all know who Bill Gates is, but let's just examine this proposition as if someone else said it, maybe someone anonymous or who lacks prestige.
We would tell them that sewing machine aren't taxed; farm equipment isn't taxed; street sweepers aren't taxed. We would tell them that productivity through technological innovation is an essential ingredient to our economy and that human needs are ever-evolving, and new jobs will be created just like they always have been.
> I am reminded of a story that a businessman told me a few years ago. While touring China, he came upon a team of nearly 100 workers building an earthen dam with shovels. The businessman commented to a local official that, with an earth-moving machine, a single worker could create the dam in an afternoon. The official’s curious response was, “Yes, but think of all the unemployment that would create.” “Oh,” said the businessman, “I thought you were building a dam. If it’s jobs you want to create, then take away their shovels and give them spoons!”
Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
#13How come a robot pay taxes? It will be paid by the creators or the owner of that robot Which means that owner/creator will pay double taxes. Including his own and his robot's taxes.
Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
#14How come a robot pay taxes? It will be paid by the creators or the owner of that robot Which means that owner/creator will pay double taxes. Including his own and his robot's taxes.
That's exactly the point, those taxes will help cover all the people now unemployed by those robots.
Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
#15First question, how do you define a robot?
Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
#16By the same logic the person who was put out of work by a piece of software made by Microsoft should result in the company using the Microsoft product to create value should be taxed as well. Right? So his statement that robot companies should not be concerned is pretty disingenuous if you ask me. Of course they will be concerned along with the companies. We should be coming up with incentives to give people jobs rat…
I think Gates meant this more as a thought experiment, since he can't seriously think we can define a "robot." We need to find ways to cope with the speed of automation, by finding more revenue for putting displaced people back to work. How can we get the labor participation rate (62% and dropping) back to the pre-recession levels, as we fight both aging and automation.
Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
#17Middle managers wont get replaced by robots that prepare powerpoints and know how to compliment their boss. They'll be replaced by algorithms that eliminate any need for their role. Is a 3d printer a robot?
Normally I'm impressed by Bill Gates' thinking, but this seems half-baked.
Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
#18This is a very smart idea. Taxes' primary function is to finance what can only be provided by government in our society. With the advent of robots as a major part of our working force taxing them is a way to get money for the public good. Why shouldn't they be taxed? The alternative is for the robots and their owners to get a free ride while still using society's infrastructure. Taxing robots is probably not enough. I suspect in time we'll need to find a tax, or an equivalent, for algorithms too.
Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
#19Seriously? We all know who Bill Gates is, but let's just examine this proposition as if someone else said it, maybe someone anonymous or who lacks prestige. We would tell them that sewing machine aren't taxed; farm equipment isn't taxed; street sweepers aren't taxed. We would tell them that productivity through technological innovation is an essential ingredient to our economy and that human needs are ever-evolving,…
new jobs will be created just like they always have been
I think that hypothesis is what Bill Gates is questioning. The rate of change is far quicker than anything we've seen before, so using historical examples of how jobs have been created when technology puts people out of work as evidence of what will happen is grossly flawed. There's a possibility that we won't invent new jobs in time. We should think about what that means.
Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots
#20By the same logic the person who was put out of work by a piece of software made by Microsoft should result in the company using the Microsoft product to create value should be taxed as well. Right? So his statement that robot companies should not be concerned is pretty disingenuous if you ask me. Of course they will be concerned along with the companies. We should be coming up with incentives to give people jobs rat…
I think Gates meant this more as a thought experiment, since he can't seriously think we can define a "robot." We need to find ways to cope with the speed of automation, by finding more revenue for putting displaced people back to work. How can we get the labor participation rate (62% and dropping) back to the pre-recession levels, as we fight both aging and automation.
> How can we get the labor participation rate (62% and dropping) back to the pre-recession levels, as we fight both aging and automation.
You don't? You use automation to deliver consumer excess so people don't have to work anymore. The problem is not the automation and job loss; its who is capturing the benefits (ie corporations and shareholders).
Slavery is wrong (communism). Not allowing the patenting or copyright of automation or algorithms is just fine (socialism).
Note: In my scenario, I'm not taking your ability to operate you own automation or code away; I'm simply removing artificial government restrictions on its use and distribution. What the patent and copyright office giveth, they taketh away.
Also, creators are going to create even if they're not permitted to reap outsized rewards from their creations.
EDIT: Since HN throttling has kicked in and I can't reply directly:
> Limiting the returns means limiting the risks people are willing to take.
@skookumchuck: If your basic needs are met, what risks are you taking? How is it different than founders who come from rich families so a startup has no risk?
The more people we can meet the basic needs of (again, with automation), the more people who can take "shoot the moon" risks safely.