Isn't this the wishful thinking again of free energy, or infinite motion engine? Weren't we done with that already?
India floats the idea of a universal basic income
11–20 of 252 posts
Re: India floats the idea of a universal basic income
#12> proposal stops a little short of true universality: for his sums to add up, take-up must be limited to just 75% of Indians. That means either a return to flawed means-testing, or a hope that the better-off will voluntarily opt out. That's easy: just wrap it in social stigma. I'm sure there's plenty of (socially) lower-middle class Britons who are eligible for one or other benefit scheme that they either don't reali…
While I agree that wrapping it in social stigma would help w/the numbers, it'd set a very bad precedent for the idea of basic income in general.
Why? It seems like a great way to discourage people from consuming it unnecessarily while making sure no one actually suffers in dire poverty unnecessarily.
In fact, this might be a good idea in general - sumptuary laws based on net payments to the government. Contributors to society would gain visible social status while those who are a net drain lose status but do not materially suffer.
Of course, I doubt you could implement this in India. I'm pretty sure everyone will shamelessly take the money.
Re: India floats the idea of a universal basic income
#13Isn't this the wishful thinking again of free energy, or infinite motion engine? Weren't we done with that already?
It's not the same. This isn't trying to break the rules of physics. It's just a very large welfare program that would benefit from not having a bureaucracy behind it. And it would rely on the theory that enough people will still want work, so that they can afford luxuries, live where they want to, and get other trappings of social status.
Re: India floats the idea of a universal basic income
#14I guess Iran is the only country with universal basic income already in place then! the income is not much and you probably can't live of it without working, but it is universal!
Alaska, a thoroughly red state has universal income. Likewise, it is not enough to live off.
Isn't that more like an oil dividend?
Re: India floats the idea of a universal basic income
#15I feel like universal basic income will only work in progressive societies that have gotten used to various social programs before. They might go bankrupt long before any of it's population actually receive money due to corruption.
In country's with high poverty level where people don't possess the minimal quality of life, I highly doubt the spirit of basic income will even be recognized but seen more of a cash grab where you'd be considered stupid for not taking advantage of. Such is the effect of poverty-removes the ability to seek long term societal gains for short term selfish gain at the cost of rest of society.
There may be cultural differences but they all boil down to economics of that specific region and country. My feeling is that a basic quality of life and the infrastructure to support it must be present for universal basic income to work. It's just too easy to cheat when so many of your peers will undoubtedly do it at your expense. It's expensive to cheat when none of your peer are willing to do it due to social stigma and shame.
Re: India floats the idea of a universal basic income
#16> proposal stops a little short of true universality: for his sums to add up, take-up must be limited to just 75% of Indians. That means either a return to flawed means-testing, or a hope that the better-off will voluntarily opt out. That's easy: just wrap it in social stigma. I'm sure there's plenty of (socially) lower-middle class Britons who are eligible for one or other benefit scheme that they either don't reali…
Social stigma will be real difficult to attach there. In India a lot of people take pride in being called backward or lower caste so they can mooch off some or other government subsidy or reservation to jobs/education. As the article mentioned it is almost always better offs who game the system to their benefit.
I didn't downnvote you, and I think your point is very true. I wish people had found it less insulting so there could've been discussion. There are many that need help, and many that want a certificate calling themselves backward.
Re: India floats the idea of a universal basic income
#17In other developed countries, I think universal basic income makes sense, but not in the case of India. India has several systemic problems and a significant portion of the population has little to no education. Any income that can sustain a household without any pressure to grow as people will probably hinder their progress more so than help them. For a country with no lack of problems to solve, they are much better off to incentivize people to learn, teach or do charity than to just hand over some money for being citizens. Similarly, I am of the opinion that India is better off spending that money by identifying all the organizational systems that it lacks like waste processing, water purification, security, monitoring, etc., and funding several startups in those areas. This is similar to how YC funds startups so it is using market forces to solve systemic problems without resorting to centralized planning and execution.
Re: India floats the idea of a universal basic income
#18Indian finance minister has already said that Indian politics is not mature to have this idea implemented. Activists/Politicians support idea of UBI along with all the other subsidies. So it won't replace anything, just an addition to already financially burdened state.
To put in perspective Indian per capita income is just 3% of USA. Even with PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) it is still 1/10th of US. I think most generous implementation might not even be able to provide 2 basic meals a day, forget housing and healthcare etc.
Re: India floats the idea of a universal basic income
#19I feel like universal basic income will only work in progressive societies that have gotten used to various social programs before. They might go bankrupt long before any of it's population actually receive money due to corruption. In country's with high poverty level where people don't possess the minimal quality of life, I highly doubt the spirit of basic income will even be recognized but seen more of a cash grab…
> I feel like universal basic income will only work in progressive societies that have gotten used to various social programs before. They might go bankrupt long before any of it's population actually receive money due to corruption.
I actually think it is the opposite. UBI might work better precisely because corruption prevents other welfare schemes reaching the target population.
At least in theory, the direct cash transfer should help pull out a lot of people from abject poverty. The article quotes a jump from 22% absolute poverty to 0.5% - if it does that, it would go a long way in accelerating growth in India.
Re: India floats the idea of a universal basic income
#20Isn't this the wishful thinking again of free energy, or infinite motion engine? Weren't we done with that already?
It's not the same. This isn't trying to break the rules of physics. It's just a very large welfare program that would benefit from not having a bureaucracy behind it. And it would rely on the theory that enough people will still want work, so that they can afford luxuries, live where they want to, and get other trappings of social status.
Sounds like living in a libertarian paradise. Except if you get stabbed and your doctor doesn't take your particular private healthcare plan. Then you bleed out while singing the praises of deregulation.