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Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

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Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#11

Post by colanderman »

ams6110 wrote: post #7

At home I cook on cast-iron pans with metal utensils. Once they are seasoned well they are remarkably non-stick and easy to clean with just hot water and a stiff brush.

I tried cast-iron (mostly for pancakes) but found that it heated very unevenly (to the point of burning food in the center and not cooking food at the edge).

I've found success with a multi-clad stainless steel skillet. Heating it to the Leidenfrost point [1] ensures that nothing sticks.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect#Leidenfrost...

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#12

Post by Neliquat »

colanderman wrote: post #11
ams6110 wrote: post #7

At home I cook on cast-iron pans with metal utensils. Once they are seasoned well they are remarkably non-stick and easy to clean with just hot water and a stiff brush.

I tried cast-iron (mostly for pancakes) but found that it heated very unevenly (to the point of burning food in the center and not cooking food at the edge). I've found success with a multi-clad stainless steel skillet. Heating it to the Leidenfrost point [1] ensures that nothing sticks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect#Leidenfrost...

Disclaimer: I am an avid cast iron user.

It seems like cast iron fails on electric cooktops, or in the case of much of the thin modern cast iron cookware. In an effort to keep weight down to compete, they ruined the product. Gas flame mostly solves this, but is increasingly uncommon.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#13

Post by gumby »

joezydeco wrote: post #4

How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. How many are in your pocket right now? How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that.

> How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA.

BPA on thermal paper is indeed a worry (and of course most those "BPA-free" bottles use a different bisphenol plasticizer, just not bisphenol-A).

> How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that.

But a teflon sheet? Teflon is so tightly linked that it is inert that is why it's non-stick! Yes, its production process is quite toxic, and of course if you heat it to the point of breaking it down you'll get toxic byproducts the will kill birds (with their hyper efficient gas exchange systems...that we don't have). I seriously doubt they heat their grills to 400 F.

I once swallowed some strips of teflon tape (settling an argument with a friend...) and they were bright white and intact (sharp edges where cut were still sharp) on the way out.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#14

Post by VeejayRampay »

notadoc wrote: post #8

Let's hear both sides before we rush to any judgement about these so called facts about these so called "chemicals". Maybe some people like fluorinated chemicals? Who needs regulations? Everyone can run their own independent tests in their own privately funded home labs and determine if the chemicals are troubling to them or not.

Not everyone can run their own independent tests, that's the point of regulations. 80% of people have neither money, expertise, knowledge nor perspective to have those tests be run for them.

Take away the regulations and you'll have polluted water, Beijing-style air, dangerous chemicals in all kinds of devices, all of it the result of greed, because dangerous is usually cheaper.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#15

Post by justin66 »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #14
notadoc wrote: post #8

Let's hear both sides before we rush to any judgement about these so called facts about these so called "chemicals". Maybe some people like fluorinated chemicals? Who needs regulations? Everyone can run their own independent tests in their own privately funded home labs and determine if the chemicals are troubling to them or not.

Not everyone can run their own independent tests, that's the point of regulations. 80% of people have neither money, expertise, knowledge nor perspective to have those tests be run for them. Take away the regulations and you'll have polluted water, Beijing-style air, dangerous chemicals in all kinds of devices, all of it the result of greed, because dangerous is usually cheaper.

I'm certain notadoc was joking.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#16

Post by gumby »

colanderman wrote: post #11
ams6110 wrote: post #7

At home I cook on cast-iron pans with metal utensils. Once they are seasoned well they are remarkably non-stick and easy to clean with just hot water and a stiff brush.

I tried cast-iron (mostly for pancakes) but found that it heated very unevenly (to the point of burning food in the center and not cooking food at the edge). I've found success with a multi-clad stainless steel skillet. Heating it to the Leidenfrost point [1] ensures that nothing sticks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect#Leidenfrost...

Think about how these cast iron pans need to work. They have a high thermal mass so once hot will have a nice uniform temperature...but you will have to wait for that to happen. A thinner pan will heat much faster but will be liable to hot spots.

I prefer a thinner pan myself[+] but I understand why people like the cast iron.

[+] one thing about those pans: the idea of a "seasoned" pan, with old, rancid oil molecules stuck in the nooks and crannies simply creeps me out. However I haven't heard of anyone actually getting sick (or suffering any olfactory effects either) so I'm sure it's all in my head.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#17

Post by justin66 »

gumby wrote: post #13
joezydeco wrote: post #4

How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. How many are in your pocket right now? How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that.

> How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. BPA on thermal paper is indeed a worry (and of course most those "BPA-free" bottles use a different bisphenol plasticizer, just not bisphenol-A). > How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that. But a teflon sheet? Teflon is so tightly linked that it is…

> if you heat it to the point of breaking it down you'll get toxic byproducts the will kill birds (with their hyper efficient gas exchange systems...that we don't have).

Strange comment. Those fumes are rather unfriendly to humans, as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#18

Post by erichmond »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #14
notadoc wrote: post #8

Let's hear both sides before we rush to any judgement about these so called facts about these so called "chemicals". Maybe some people like fluorinated chemicals? Who needs regulations? Everyone can run their own independent tests in their own privately funded home labs and determine if the chemicals are troubling to them or not.

Not everyone can run their own independent tests, that's the point of regulations. 80% of people have neither money, expertise, knowledge nor perspective to have those tests be run for them. Take away the regulations and you'll have polluted water, Beijing-style air, dangerous chemicals in all kinds of devices, all of it the result of greed, because dangerous is usually cheaper.

I think that your parent commenter had tongue firmly in cheek when writing that.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#19

Post by VLM »

colanderman wrote: post #11
ams6110 wrote: post #7

At home I cook on cast-iron pans with metal utensils. Once they are seasoned well they are remarkably non-stick and easy to clean with just hot water and a stiff brush.

I tried cast-iron (mostly for pancakes) but found that it heated very unevenly (to the point of burning food in the center and not cooking food at the edge). I've found success with a multi-clad stainless steel skillet. Heating it to the Leidenfrost point [1] ensures that nothing sticks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect#Leidenfrost...

That's why you pre-heat them in the oven. This freaks people out who've never done it. Whaa ... you're sticking a pan in an oven thats turned on? Because if you do that to a cheap stamped steel and plastic pan, the plastic handle will melt off. There's a reason CI pans have expensively attached solid cast iron handles and not bolted on plastic handles...

You seasoned the pan by heating it to 400F in an oven till it stopped smoking... by definition putting it back in a 400F oven isn't going to hurt it... Also you can't accidentally overheat to 1200F and burn the seasoning off in a 400F oven, unlike preheating on a stove top. The stove top is used to hold to a constant temp not heat it up.

Leave the oven at 400F while you're cooking on the stove top... finish cooking, wipe/scrub the pan, apply a very light coat of oil, toss back in the 400F oven, turn the oven off, by the time the oven finally cools off you just massively strengthened the seasoning layer. Depending how fast your oven cools off I guess.

WRT SS there is no free lunch, you spend about as much time re-seasoning cast iron as you do scrubbing stainless steel with barkeepers friend powder.

If I'm generating a sauce, like say making fried Italian sausages with grapes and a nice white wine sauce, its stainless all the way, but I don't generate sauce when I'm making plain breakfast sausage, for example.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#20

Post by VLM »

gumby wrote: post #16
colanderman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried cast-iron (mostly for pancakes) but found that it heated very unevenly (to the point of burning food in the center and not cooking food at the edge). I've found success with a multi-clad stainless steel skillet. Heating it to the Leidenfrost point [1] ensures that nothing sticks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect#Leidenfrost...

Think about how these cast iron pans need to work. They have a high thermal mass so once hot will have a nice uniform temperature...but you will have to wait for that to happen. A thinner pan will heat much faster but will be liable to hot spots. I prefer a thinner pan myself[+] but I understand why people like the cast iron. [+] one thing about those pans: the idea of a "seasoned" pan, with old, rancid oil molecules…

"old, rancid oil molecules"

the seasoning process polymerizes those double bonded molecules into a plastic polymer. Some people cook on a painted film of semi-toxic teflon polymer plastic, you're cooking on a film of olive oil polymer plastic. I wonder if anyone's ever cooked on a sheet of kapton plastic? It should take the heat... Then again given how well hot PLA and ABS stick to hot kapton maybe its not so much fun.

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