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Getting out of the cloud…

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Re: Getting out of the cloud…

#11

Post by surferbayarea »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #9
surferbayarea wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

more like the internet will finally be fixed. There is no reason gmail cannot encrypt my email and remove pii data, except that it will eat into advertising revenues. Its easy for companies like Google to take a stand on an easy thing like the government making it a bit harder to get visas, but when it comes to saying no to government requests for your email - they happily comply.

The number one benefit that Gmail touted when it launched was searchable email. That will break. You're perfectly free to use E2E encryption on Gmail, and they are even trying to make it easy for you, though that project is evidently not as well staffed as the advertising org.

search-ability is not a constraint for encryption. Eq see https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf

Re: Getting out of the cloud…

#12

Post by lern_too_spel »

surferbayarea wrote: post #11
lern_too_spel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number one benefit that Gmail touted when it launched was searchable email. That will break. You're perfectly free to use E2E encryption on Gmail, and they are even trying to make it easy for you, though that project is evidently not as well staffed as the advertising org.

search-ability is not a constraint for encryption. Eq see https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf

Performant search is. Gmail wouldn't work with O(n) search times.

Re: Getting out of the cloud…

#14

Post by surferbayarea »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #12
surferbayarea wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

search-ability is not a constraint for encryption. Eq see https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf

Performant search is. Gmail wouldn't work with O(n) search times.

The inverted index could simply be built/live on client side. The cloud is then just a backup data storage. Encrypted email is downloaded, unencrypted and indexed on your laptop/phone etc.

Re: Getting out of the cloud…

#15

Post by lern_too_spel »

surferbayarea wrote: post #10

https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/c... https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/20... ~60,000 google user accounts(not just email, but all your web browsing data) were handed over to the government in 2016. And this was under the Obama administration.

Those aren't requests to hand over all a user's data to the government. Half of those are subpoenas, and half of the remaining are search warrants. You're probably thinking of NSLs, which you can find ranges for https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/U..., but those don't contain content. Also, it's unclear why you're talking about the number of Americans when the executive order is a change in the handling of foreigners' data.

Re: Getting out of the cloud…

#17

Post by lern_too_spel »

surferbayarea wrote: post #14
lern_too_spel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performant search is. Gmail wouldn't work with O(n) search times.

The inverted index could simply be built/live on client side. The cloud is then just a backup data storage. Encrypted email is downloaded, unencrypted and indexed on your laptop/phone etc.

To be clear, you're proposing that users download their entire email storage to their phones and browsers before they can search or spam filter their email? And you think that this would be a compelling product for the average email user? I'm having a hard time figuring out if you're trolling.

Re: Getting out of the cloud…

#18

Post by surferbayarea »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #15
surferbayarea wrote: post #10

https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/c... https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/20... ~60,000 google user accounts(not just email, but all your web browsing data) were handed over to the government in 2016. And this was under the Obama administration.

Those aren't requests to hand over all a user's data to the government. Half of those are subpoenas, and half of the remaining are search warrants. You're probably thinking of NSLs, which you can find ranges for https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/U... , but those don't contain content. Also, it's unclear why you're talking about the number of Americans when the executive order is a change in t…

FISA Content requests: July to December 2015 21000–21499. Note - FISA requests includes all personal information, NSL does not. And sure - this particular order is about foreigners' data, but they might require citizens' data in future. Also is data privacy only a US citizen's right? Googlers claimed to have strong views when non-citizen googlers were being treated unfairly on immigration. But no statement when non-citizens' privacy is being snatched away.

Re: Getting out of the cloud…

#19

Post by Taek »

It's things like these that push me so hard in the direction of decentralized cloud applications. Centralized institutions should not be able to see your data, and foreign powers should not be able to command them to drop your data (or otherwise hold it hostage).

Re: Getting out of the cloud…

#20

Post by lern_too_spel »

surferbayarea wrote: post #18
lern_too_spel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't requests to hand over all a user's data to the government. Half of those are subpoenas, and half of the remaining are search warrants. You're probably thinking of NSLs, which you can find ranges for https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/U... , but those don't contain content. Also, it's unclear why you're talking about the number of Americans when the executive order is a change in t…

FISA Content requests: July to December 2015 21000–21499. Note - FISA requests includes all personal information, NSL does not. And sure - this particular order is about foreigners' data, but they might require citizens' data in future. Also is data privacy only a US citizen's right? Googlers claimed to have strong views when non-citizen googlers were being treated unfairly on immigration. But no statement when non-c…

FISA is for non-Americans' data, and you were talking about Americans previously.

You can't write an executive order that says you can get access to something you previously needed a warrant for without a warrant.

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