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Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

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Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#11

Post by FellowTraveler »

MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

> once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a heartbeat

Actually, the unique feature that makes Bitcoin special is specifically its censorship-resistance. That's why people value it -- because it cannot be shut down.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#12

Post by baddox »

MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

> It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets.

I don't get this argument. Competing cryptocurrencies won't be spendable on the Bitcoin block chain and vice versa, so Bitcoin's scarcity isn't compromised. It's true that Bitcoin could face competition from other cryptocurrencies, but that's not exactly an inherent deal breaker. People need to use a cryptocurrency for it to be of much use.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#13

Post by bduerst »

baddox wrote: post #12
MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

> It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. I don't get this argument. Competing cryptocurrencies won't be spendable on the Bitcoin block chain and vice versa, so Bitcoin's scarcity isn't compromised. It's true that Bitcoin could face co…

They're referring to any unique characteristics that give Bitcoin value in competing with other cryptocurrencies, which is mostly true.

There are already a number of newer cryptocurrencies that are better than bitcoin (e.g. no block size issue, computational waste, etc.) but with bitcoin it will take more than that to dethrone Bitcoin's brand as "Internet Drug Money".

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#15

Post by [deleted] »

FellowTraveler wrote: post #11
MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

> once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a heartbeat Actually, the unique feature that makes Bitcoin special is specifically its censorship-resistance. That's why people value it -- because it cannot be shut down.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#17

Post by petertodd »

bduerst wrote: post #13
baddox wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. I don't get this argument. Competing cryptocurrencies won't be spendable on the Bitcoin block chain and vice versa, so Bitcoin's scarcity isn't compromised. It's true that Bitcoin could face co…

They're referring to any unique characteristics that give Bitcoin value in competing with other cryptocurrencies, which is mostly true. There are already a number of newer cryptocurrencies that are better than bitcoin (e.g. no block size issue, computational waste, etc.) but with bitcoin it will take more than that to dethrone Bitcoin's brand as "Internet Drug Money".

All existing cryptocurrencies have a block size issue because blockchains have terrible scalability; removing a safety limit doesn't make the underlying problem go away.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#18

Post by ericb »

MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

Most of the "value" of gold is by arbitrary societal agreement--there is very low natural use-driven demand compared to the froth from people using it as a store of value. That agreement, in a game theory sense, comes from the original time when participants coalesced around gold because it had the properties that seemed most appealing (limited supply, difficult to fake, measurable, transportable) as a store of value or currency.

Whatever alternatives may arise, the one that will be "most valuable" is the one that everyone thinks everyone else will want.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#19

Post by bduerst »

petertodd wrote: post #17
bduerst wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're referring to any unique characteristics that give Bitcoin value in competing with other cryptocurrencies, which is mostly true. There are already a number of newer cryptocurrencies that are better than bitcoin (e.g. no block size issue, computational waste, etc.) but with bitcoin it will take more than that to dethrone Bitcoin's brand as "Internet Drug Money".

All existing cryptocurrencies have a block size issue because blockchains have terrible scalability; removing a safety limit doesn't make the underlying problem go away.

I'm referring to the famed blocksize debate [1] that's happened with Bitcoin, in which several miners have gained control of the blockchain through economies of scale and are preventing forks for block size increase [2]. This size increase would allow for more than 7 tx/s but it would also increase costs for miners, so the miners are ignoring it, effectively making it tragedy of the commons.

Note: This isn't a blockchain issue, it's a Bitcoin issue. Other blockchains have implemented different measures to deal with transaction saturation and block size caps.

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_size_limit_controversy

[1] https://blog.plan99.net/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experi...

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#20

Post by orblivion »

FellowTraveler wrote: post #11
MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

> once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a heartbeat Actually, the unique feature that makes Bitcoin special is specifically its censorship-resistance. That's why people value it -- because it cannot be shut down.

If it becomes enough of a hassle it probably could be shut down. It would have to cost the government so much that it's worth the political hit to them to alter the Internet. So, best that it remain not too high a nuisance for now.
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