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Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

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Re: Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the much higher VAT rate paid by most hotels in the UK compared to most AirBnBs (17% vs 0.6%) is not because AirBnBs are illegally avoiding the tax, but simply because most hotels, but few AirBnBs, cross the business-size threshold where the higher VAT kicks in.

its not a "higher VAT" threshold, you do not have to register for or charge VAT at all if your business earns less than £85,000 (you might want to if you pay out a lot of VAT though). This is unusual in the EU, most countries do not have this exemption I don't think.

Canada has the same thing. You have to collect more than 30,000$ in income before you need to collect taxes for it.

Re: Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

#12
post #9

It's almost as if AirBnB, Uber et al get by on skirting the law other people have to follow.

Maybe we should be asking why some industries are heavily taxed and others are not

Just look how successful the products are (not talking about the companies) without heavy government intervention. Both of those would not exist if they had followed laws designed a (half?) century ago for different types of businesses. And customers love those services.

Rather than finding a common working ground that keeps customers happy that outnumber those unhappy with it by 100:1 and instead updates laws like improving landlords protection from Airbnb renters, improving access to employment insurance and health care to self employed contractors, etc it's easier to blame tech billionaires for being greedy.

Re: Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

#13
post #6

It's almost as if AirBnB, Uber et al get by on skirting the law other people have to follow.

"Skirting the law" is loaded language that makes it sound as though they are doing something illegal. They are not. It's true, though; the reason companies like AirBnB and Uber are so vastly superior to the entrenched competition is that they don't have to deal with all the ridiculous and pointless red tape that makes taxis so horrendous and American hotels so insanely expensive. I'm not sure how anyone can recognize…

Which hotel regulations do you think are overly onerous and ridiculous? Most of those regulations were put in place to protect communities and customers, not the hotels themselves. Zoning laws prevent tourists from overrunning resident communities where people don't want them. Safety and health regulations ensure that customers won't get injured or sick during their stay. Taxes help cities pay for all the improvements, services, etc. that residents want.

And yes, Airbnb is skirting the law in the loaded sense of the term. They basically encourage illegal rentals and then refuse to police them until cities like NYC force them to. They might not be directly in violation of laws themselves, but they're definitely knowingly enabling their customers to do illegal things.

Re: Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

#14
post #6

It's almost as if AirBnB, Uber et al get by on skirting the law other people have to follow.

"Skirting the law" is loaded language that makes it sound as though they are doing something illegal. They are not. It's true, though; the reason companies like AirBnB and Uber are so vastly superior to the entrenched competition is that they don't have to deal with all the ridiculous and pointless red tape that makes taxis so horrendous and American hotels so insanely expensive. I'm not sure how anyone can recognize…

Hotel taxes support infrastructure and city services. And things like proper safety and fire regulations in hotels ensure that guests know where fire exits are, that fire extinguishers are available and operational, that smoke detectors are present in the proper locations and functioning, etc. All of those things cost money. AirBnB offers none of those things. It took a string of deadly hotel fires in the 70s to get regulation up to speed. I wonder what it will take with the illegal hotel rental market.

Re: Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

#15
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should be asking why some industries are heavily taxed and others are not

Just look how successful the products are (not talking about the companies) without heavy government intervention. Both of those would not exist if they had followed laws designed a (half?) century ago for different types of businesses. And customers love those services. Rather than finding a common working ground that keeps customers happy that outnumber those unhappy with it by 100:1 and instead updates laws like i…

Tech billionaires are greedy.

Re: Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

#16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Skirting the law" is loaded language that makes it sound as though they are doing something illegal. They are not. It's true, though; the reason companies like AirBnB and Uber are so vastly superior to the entrenched competition is that they don't have to deal with all the ridiculous and pointless red tape that makes taxis so horrendous and American hotels so insanely expensive. I'm not sure how anyone can recognize…

Hotel taxes support infrastructure and city services. And things like proper safety and fire regulations in hotels ensure that guests know where fire exits are, that fire extinguishers are available and operational, that smoke detectors are present in the proper locations and functioning, etc. All of those things cost money. AirBnB offers none of those things. It took a string of deadly hotel fires in the 70s to get…

I'm not coming from any experience in this comment, but I'm wondering if AirBNB rentals will ever have such extra regulation since there are no long-hotel hallways, no fire-escapes, elevators, etc... simply because these are already residences - are we to suggest we need normal homes to be safer than they already are? If these places are "unsafe" in this regard, shouldn't it be improved whether or not they are being rented on a nightly basis?

Re: Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

#17
post #6

It's almost as if AirBnB, Uber et al get by on skirting the law other people have to follow.

"Skirting the law" is loaded language that makes it sound as though they are doing something illegal. They are not. It's true, though; the reason companies like AirBnB and Uber are so vastly superior to the entrenched competition is that they don't have to deal with all the ridiculous and pointless red tape that makes taxis so horrendous and American hotels so insanely expensive. I'm not sure how anyone can recognize…

Public safety regulations are not pointless red tape. They are created after real tragedy that shows a clear need. In fact, fire regulations in NY first applied to apartments, while hotel owners fought for decades to avoid the regulation require it fire escapes (Read the following for more information http://www.uvm.edu/histpres/HPJ/AndreThesis.pdf )

Even after fire escapes were mandated hundreds of people died in a factory fire ( see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_... ). I hope you are wiling to concede that these regulations, while imposing a real burden on businesses and landlords, were designed to correct a real and very persistent problem. Is your position that we would be better to just ignore fire and other safety rules for all hotels?

In light of a clear rationale for such regulations, we must ask why one business should get to play by a different set of rules than another? Free market competition does not work if the only advantage is regulatory arbitrage. That would be like a race between two cars, one that has a 40 mile/hour speed limit, the other no speed limit. Which car would you pick?

The only argument that I would concede is that perhaps AirBnB is closer to an actual bed and breakfast, so those regulations should apply, but I would guess that class of regulation is generally more strict than what they are subject to now.

Re: Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

#19
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Skirting the law" is loaded language that makes it sound as though they are doing something illegal. They are not. It's true, though; the reason companies like AirBnB and Uber are so vastly superior to the entrenched competition is that they don't have to deal with all the ridiculous and pointless red tape that makes taxis so horrendous and American hotels so insanely expensive. I'm not sure how anyone can recognize…

Which hotel regulations do you think are overly onerous and ridiculous? Most of those regulations were put in place to protect communities and customers, not the hotels themselves. Zoning laws prevent tourists from overrunning resident communities where people don't want them. Safety and health regulations ensure that customers won't get injured or sick during their stay. Taxes help cities pay for all the improvement…

Your last point is important. Enabling others to break the law can, and often is, breaking the law.

Re: Up to a third of Airbnb's price gap with hotels is due to tax treatment

#20
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should be asking why some industries are heavily taxed and others are not

Just look how successful the products are (not talking about the companies) without heavy government intervention. Both of those would not exist if they had followed laws designed a (half?) century ago for different types of businesses. And customers love those services. Rather than finding a common working ground that keeps customers happy that outnumber those unhappy with it by 100:1 and instead updates laws like i…

Customers love Uber because it's prices are currently subsidized by VC money. Once that goes away, we'll see how competitive they are.
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