I’ve always been advised to avoid these “sub-communities” like /r/javascript and Hacker News. Maintainers say they are filled with assholes who don’t know what they are talking about, angry idiots shouting at everything and everyone, cesspools, giant piles of trash burning in the wind. Is HN really that bad? I mean, it must be, if people maintaining popular open source projects think so... But why does it feel much m…
Dear JavaScript
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Re: Dear JavaScript
#12The SF attitude is more driven by fashion, marketing and art/design world factors and less by raw commercial or technical aspects. This introduces a lot of subjectivity and, as with the art world, snobbery, vicious infighting and out-grouping. Much of the online shittalking reminds me of the various post-war -isms trying to box out the other groups.
There are, of course, many things going on: the rise of the online troll, increasing churn and chaos in the javascript community, bifurcation into the haves and have nots in technology, even the recent presidental election and the attendant insecurities. But this is what I see.
[1] - https://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html
EDIT: and I should say, I fall victim to exactly what the author describes when I'm going off on one of my YAGNI react/angular rants.
Re: Dear JavaScript
#13Because that's what he is. He's a self-chosen software politician who admits he loves his job. He's paid to travel the world and interact with his constituents.
But he is upset that his audience sometimes writes a blog post, or worse, nominally approves of adding an arbitrary number to a database associated with a blog post. Somehow this is construed as a problem with the community.
It seems the community is functioning as intended, and grievances are being hashed out. However, the author does not want to deal with the challenges of listening to and interacting with the people he is being paid to interact with.
Re: Dear JavaScript
#14I would say that only in recent years has it felt like the most ignorant are really starting to ratchet up their rhetoric. I still see it as a truly powerful thing even when it can / is used destructively.
Also, given the ad-driven world of online, my guess is a large number of "relatively intelligent" rants we see online ramp up their tone only to drive more traffic. It's sad state of affairs, but true. My belief is the internet is still very much a meritocracy. As long as good work continues, it will continue to get well-deserved attention and praise. The thing that is changing and the way I think we (oss contributors in general) need to adapt is by making sure we don't let the noise rattle us.
EDIT: In terms of how the particular issues arose (backlash) for Babel 6, I would say the only thing you'd probably want to do is assess the project's methodology for how word gets out and how easy it is for people in the community to participate in discussions of changes that will affect users. Perhaps making it explicit on the project websites which channels are "official" channels where the project's work occurs.
In the end decisions / progress needs to be made. If everything is done as "above board" as possible given resource constraints of the project, don't ever let the backlash make you feel so guilty that it might change your mind about whether to contribute. Those who are the loudest are probably the least involved and sadly the most dispensable. Of course you don't want to think in those terms, but I think it's a lot worse to try too hard to appease loud / ignorant / uninvolved community members. That is probably the main thing that will lead the core team to want to disband the project altogether.
Re: Dear JavaScript
#15I’ve always been advised to avoid these “sub-communities” like /r/javascript and Hacker News. Maintainers say they are filled with assholes who don’t know what they are talking about, angry idiots shouting at everything and everyone, cesspools, giant piles of trash burning in the wind. Is HN really that bad? I mean, it must be, if people maintaining popular open source projects think so... But why does it feel much m…
Check out this comment from one of the devs behind Homebrew from HN 10 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13035438 (this was in response that he might be a good target to sue over putting Google Analytics in Homebrew). Yes, we need to treat our open source devs better. HN is not innocent.
It feels like some people treat open source developers like government employees. Both provide a seemingly "free" service, and when you're not paying it's easy to ask for more and get upset about trivial things. (Of course neither group deserves this kind of thing.)
Re: Dear JavaScript
#16I’ve always been advised to avoid these “sub-communities” like /r/javascript and Hacker News. Maintainers say they are filled with assholes who don’t know what they are talking about, angry idiots shouting at everything and everyone, cesspools, giant piles of trash burning in the wind. Is HN really that bad? I mean, it must be, if people maintaining popular open source projects think so... But why does it feel much m…
I don't think HN is on the level of Reddit or some other communities, but there is an air of contrarianism that wafts through this place that I can imagine reads as negative to people that aren't familiar with it. It also sometimes outright vilifies certain projects.
Re: Dear JavaScript
#17Our discussion eventually thought it was due to two things: 1) Github, while making the open source process visible and easy to use for many, also makes the process pretty open and barrier free to people who may not yet have the technical (or social) ability to meaningfully contribute to a project; what once would have required posting to a dev mailing list is now just a couple of clicks; and 2) a cultural mindset that some people seem to have that free or open source software is some kind of entitlement (or at least due to communication issues, and the ambiguity of the written word on the Internet that is how I thought it came off). I think the sheer volume of freely available amazing software has caused some to forget the whole reason we have this stuff is someone somewhere spent a lot of time working on it and then decided to give it away.
I don't know if this is really a javascript thing, but I think it manifests itself there more than others simply because javascript might be the first place a lot of people start in their career/learning.
Re: Dear JavaScript
#18Re: Dear JavaScript
#19That seems to be the essence of his entire essay. He wants people to be nicer. Yes, criticism is often necessary and often motivates progress, but the criticism should be nicer.
Well, that's an ideal but his lament isn't limited to Javascript specifically. Nasty complaining is part of the universal human condition. Instead of "Dear Javascript", it's more like "Dear All of Humanity" ... stop being so mean-spirited.
In the same vein, we could generalize BS's quote:
"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -Bjarne Stroustrup
... to ...
"There are only two kinds of github projects: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -every maintainer
Re: Dear JavaScript
#20I think the problem is people want to be bleeding edge without joining the community.
Edit: question for James. What did you build with angular 2? Is it public?