Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python • Hacker News Board

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#11

Post by nhebb » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:16 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #10

pavelludiq wrote: post #4

Mr. Shaw, i am once again impressed. This is not the first time I've seen Zed Shaw rant about something he dislikes and then goes off and attempts to fix it.

[deleted]

So far, the exercises do look like their targeted to the total beginner, but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2. I say "so far" in hopes that he eventually gets enough exercises in the book that the material included now is just a small part of the finished work.

Doh! VB index alert: The exercises are 0-based and the steps are 1-based. ;-)

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#12

Post by paulitex » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:23 PM UTC

nhebb wrote: post #11

[deleted] wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

So far, the exercises do look like their targeted to the total beginner, but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2. I say "so far" in hopes that he eventually gets enough exercises in the book that the material included now is just a small part of the finished work. Doh! VB index alert: The exercises are 0-based and the steps are 1-based. ;-)

"but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2."

Off the top of my head, I know at least 3 Universities (near me in Canada: UBC, SFU, UofC) that have recently switched to Python as the first language taught/used in their CS programs.

There is a real demand for intro Python books. And IMHO Python is a pretty good first language.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#13

Post by pgbovine » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:24 PM UTC

skimming thru it now, pretty amusing in parts ... from the beginning of chapter 5:

Every programming language has some kind of way of doing numbers and math. Don’t worry, programmers lie frequently about being math geniuses when they really aren’t. If they were math geniuses, they would be doing math not writing ads and social network games to steal people’s money.

jokes aside, this could serve as a good syllabus for giving classroom Python tutorials for absolute beginners

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#14

Post by grandalf » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:24 PM UTC

This is pretty darn good. I would probably do it a bit differently but I think he's off to a very good start.

I think an example like:

print "hi there", "how are you"

with a brief explanation of the argument structure of print would be helpful.

This makes me want to write a tutorial.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#15

Post by ern » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:26 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #8

theBobMcCormick wrote: post #6

So is that why he was trashing Dive Into Python? Trying to discredit the competition?

Get the story from the horse's mouth: http://oppugn.us/posts/1272050135.html

I decided to learn Python recently, and I ran into "Dive Into Python" as a recommended resource (I think I Googled "Python book"), and it almost did put me off the language. It's not really the author's fault, it is the fault of those who recommend it.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#16

Post by Avshalom » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:28 PM UTC

I like the idea, though I know enough python that it's not for me.

The design/typography kinda sucks though, of course even Zed has pointed out how hard it is make a good looking code book.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#17

Post by steveklabnik » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:30 PM UTC

ern wrote: post #15

steveklabnik wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get the story from the horse's mouth: http://oppugn.us/posts/1272050135.html

I decided to learn Python recently, and I ran into "Dive Into Python" as a recommended resource (I think I Googled "Python book"), and it almost did put me off the language. It's not really the author's fault, it is the fault of those who recommend it.

You know, now that I think of it, Dive Into Python was the first exposure I had to Python, and I've always liked Ruby better...

But no, I don't remember much about the book, I can't really comment on its quality.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#18

Post by fretlessjazz » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:40 PM UTC

"If a programmer tells you to use vim or emacs tell them no. These editors are for when you are a better programmer. All you need right now is an editor that lets you put text into a file."

Ha! When I started to program, everyone told me the opposite. After weeks of head scratching and spending more time learning editors than coding, I secretly switched to Pico. But man could I use the hell out of Pico.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#19

Post by stcredzero » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:41 PM UTC

What I've found is that the best thing for learning programming is something that can run programs, and example programs to run and debug. That's been true ever since I started playing with BASIC on the Apple II. I've also found that dynamic languages are better, since they provide immediate feedback.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#20

Post by dirkstoop » Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 8:43 PM UTC

nhebb wrote: post #11

[deleted] wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

So far, the exercises do look like their targeted to the total beginner, but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2. I say "so far" in hopes that he eventually gets enough exercises in the book that the material included now is just a small part of the finished work. Doh! VB index alert: The exercises are 0-based and the steps are 1-based. ;-)

Re. n>2:

Except for some dabling in basic, max/msp and some proprietary scripting stuff, Python was the first language I learned. It was certainly the first one I learned to program in.