It's Charisma, Stupid (2004) • Hacker News Board

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#11

Post by wavefunction » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:13 AM UTC

farright wrote: post #10

wavefunction wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find him particularly charismatic. I'd probably punch the dude in the mouth if I had to deal with him and his attitude in person. But your points about populist economics are the bigger cause I believe. But then I'm a Bernie supporter who knew he could steal that issue from Trump. C'est la vie.

The fact the so many progressive's response is to want to "punch the dude in the mouth" is exactly the kind of oppresive political correctness Trump voters are rebelling against. These scenes probably garnered even more support for Trump's rallies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMux_UHmpvc

You think punching someone in the mouth is political correctness?

I didn't say anything about his politics, which you of course ignored because you wanted to trot out some inanities based on generalities of people you don't even know.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#12

Post by retreatguru » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:14 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #8

As someone aptly put it on twitter (Nate Cohn), the "white working class" is voting like a minority block--and why would they not? The elites have ignored the working class (white and black) for ages and when they do think of them, white (and other) elites look down at them with the contempt of 'white privilege' while they, the elite whites, sit comfortably in their protected perches rarely exposing themselves to ins…

Trump runs as the anti-establishment candidate and with his charisma does a good job selling it. His candidacy reminds me of the movie Idiocracy.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#13

Post by runevault » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:15 AM UTC

LargeCompanies wrote: post #6

Hilary Clinton has and is highly unlikeable and her narrative is similar. The DNC chose her over Sanders... would the results be different?

Both the super fiscally conservative and the more... unpleasant parts of Trump's voting block would never vote for someone as liberal as Sanders. I have a hard time believing anyone that would have voted for him would vote Trump, now if you think it would've swayed enough people who voted 3rd party to vote Sanders instead you might have something.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#14

Post by api » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:15 AM UTC

farright wrote: post #10

wavefunction wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find him particularly charismatic. I'd probably punch the dude in the mouth if I had to deal with him and his attitude in person. But your points about populist economics are the bigger cause I believe. But then I'm a Bernie supporter who knew he could steal that issue from Trump. C'est la vie.

The fact the so many progressive's response is to want to "punch the dude in the mouth" is exactly the kind of oppresive political correctness Trump voters are rebelling against. These scenes probably garnered even more support for Trump's rallies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMux_UHmpvc

I know a number of Trump supporters. The issues are outsourcing, outsourcing, job losses due to cheap overseas labor, and outsourcing, in roughly that order.

Few people on either side actually care enough about PC to sway an election. This is a rebellion against the economic effects of globalization on the working class. Look at Michigan and Ohio.

I also agree with the parent that Trump is not all that charismatic.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#15

Post by farright » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:17 AM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #11

farright wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact the so many progressive's response is to want to "punch the dude in the mouth" is exactly the kind of oppresive political correctness Trump voters are rebelling against. These scenes probably garnered even more support for Trump's rallies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMux_UHmpvc

You think punching someone in the mouth is political correctness? I didn't say anything about his politics, which you of course ignored because you wanted to trot out some inanities based on generalities of people you don't even know.

When you said "I'd probably punch the dude in the mouth if I had to deal with him and his attitude in person." I assumed you were including his political views.

I hadn't accounted for you just being a generally violent angry person.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#16

Post by retreatguru » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:18 AM UTC

runevault wrote: post #13

LargeCompanies wrote: post #6

Hilary Clinton has and is highly unlikeable and her narrative is similar. The DNC chose her over Sanders... would the results be different?

Both the super fiscally conservative and the more... unpleasant parts of Trump's voting block would never vote for someone as liberal as Sanders. I have a hard time believing anyone that would have voted for him would vote Trump, now if you think it would've swayed enough people who voted 3rd party to vote Sanders instead you might have something.

The thrust of the essay is that people don't vote by issues but by charisma - and Sanders has more charisma than Hillary. And he is also an anti-establishment candidate.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#17

Post by inimino » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:18 AM UTC

farright wrote: post #10

wavefunction wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find him particularly charismatic. I'd probably punch the dude in the mouth if I had to deal with him and his attitude in person. But your points about populist economics are the bigger cause I believe. But then I'm a Bernie supporter who knew he could steal that issue from Trump. C'est la vie.

The fact the so many progressive's response is to want to "punch the dude in the mouth" is exactly the kind of oppresive political correctness Trump voters are rebelling against. These scenes probably garnered even more support for Trump's rallies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMux_UHmpvc

Not exactly political correctness but it is contempt. I think the contempt for Trump and his supporters by the other side explains a lot of both the result and the incorrect predictions in advance of the election. A lot of the country literally could not imagine a Trump win.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#18

Post by mc32 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:19 AM UTC

retreatguru wrote: post #12

mc32 wrote: post #8

As someone aptly put it on twitter (Nate Cohn), the "white working class" is voting like a minority block--and why would they not? The elites have ignored the working class (white and black) for ages and when they do think of them, white (and other) elites look down at them with the contempt of 'white privilege' while they, the elite whites, sit comfortably in their protected perches rarely exposing themselves to ins…

Trump runs as the anti-establishment candidate and with his charisma does a good job selling it. His candidacy reminds me of the movie Idiocracy.

I dunno, I think that kind of thinking is what likely sunk Hillary's campaign. Discounting the working class as undeserving, as the ones who meekly assume the role of punching bag for all ills we cannot ascribe to anyone else.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#19

Post by ethbro » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:20 AM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #7

farright wrote: post #2

It's a number of things: Going against political correctness by voicing controversial but popular views on immigration and Islam. Populist economics in a recession after two terms of Obama. And of course a yuuuge charisma.

I don't find him particularly charismatic. I'd probably punch the dude in the mouth if I had to deal with him and his attitude in person. But your points about populist economics are the bigger cause I believe. But then I'm a Bernie supporter who knew he could steal that issue from Trump. C'est la vie.

I think pg's quality could also be termed "dynamism", which Americans have historically been very drawn to at the polls.

If one feels that the current economic outlook is not good for oneself, then I can absolutely see preferring a candidate who seems excited in proportion to the perceived challenge. And I would chalk the advantage there to Trump.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#20

Post by Moshe_Silnorin » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:21 AM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #7

farright wrote: post #2

It's a number of things: Going against political correctness by voicing controversial but popular views on immigration and Islam. Populist economics in a recession after two terms of Obama. And of course a yuuuge charisma.

I don't find him particularly charismatic. I'd probably punch the dude in the mouth if I had to deal with him and his attitude in person. But your points about populist economics are the bigger cause I believe. But then I'm a Bernie supporter who knew he could steal that issue from Trump. C'est la vie.

Populist economics is about as useful as populist physics.