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The Vigilante Manifesto

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Re: The Vigilante Manifesto

#11

Post by messel »

incongruity wrote: post #8
ch4s3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your claim about 2015 murder rates seems to be fear-mongering, from where I stand. The murder rate nationally is at a 51 year low, even with the 2015 uptick[1]. What exactly is the aim here? Your question "Could we restore trust between law enforcement and community" doesn't seem to be answered in the post, and the implication that your app could do this seems dubious. Is you aim to get people to flock to 911 calls a…

Additionally, the focus on murder rates is flawed for a few reasons: 1) Murders are not evenly distributed in most (all?) cities. In Chicago, for example, violence is heavily concentrated in certain areas. That means it's not a generalized problem yet this app doesn't address that clustering in a meaningful way. 2) Murders are not the crime that most people will feel comfortable intervening in – and, arguably, not on…

I consider this app as an extension of my senses. I get a push message when an emergency is happening nearby. Maybe I can help, maybe its none of my business, maybe I'll completely avoid that block. But I get a choice, where my earlier ignorance is no choice at all.

It's the technological equivalent of someone shouting for help. You can assist or not.

Disclaimer: I helped build the backend so I'm biased.

Re: The Vigilante Manifesto

#12

Post by HorizonXP »

The lens of a camera cannot lie, but video editing can.

In the spirit of trying new ideas, I think this is definitely an interesting one. I think it will be interesting to see how the public responds to this.

That said, I see a couple of things happening: 1) Most people will not care about this, nor use it. Human apathy is pretty powerful, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I think the majority of us are happy going about our own lives, and don't really want to upset that order. If a crime is happening, I don't think a lot of people will react to it, especially like in the video.

2) A small percentage of people will react, but that's probably not what you want in a situation like this. In emergency response, the number one thing they drill into you is to ensure the area is safe and secure. Paramedics will not render aid to a person if it means they could be harmed themselves. It's useless to have the paramedic injured as well as the victim(s).

LEO and emergency personnel are trained to respond to these situations, and are paid to put their lives on the line. Adding other citizens to the mix is dangerous and irresponsible. I understand that Vigilante is only encouraging people to record what's happening, but even that act is dangerously provocative.

Nevertheless, it is an interesting idea, and I likely have outlined the same kneejerk reaction that most would have to this, and I could very well be wrong. I think this type of app would work best in larger situations like at protests or more open public spaces. Situations like those in the video probably won't happen often, and probably would have the issues I brought up. But then, how is Vigilante different from folks just posting videos on FB Live, Twitter/Periscope, etc.?

Re: The Vigilante Manifesto

#13

Post by jdmaresco »

ch4s3 wrote: post #6
jdmaresco wrote: post #3

We released a blog post and video to explain more about the vision behind the app: https://medium.com/@CrimeNoMore/vigilante-manifesto-e665696a...

Your claim about 2015 murder rates seems to be fear-mongering, from where I stand. The murder rate nationally is at a 51 year low, even with the 2015 uptick[1]. What exactly is the aim here? Your question "Could we restore trust between law enforcement and community" doesn't seem to be answered in the post, and the implication that your app could do this seems dubious. Is you aim to get people to flock to 911 calls a…

We debated whether to leave those statistics in, even though we're citing major sources. You can look at these statistics from different angles.

Our main point is that there is still a real and often growing problem with violent crime, especially in the communities we're working with. Many people still feel very unsafe and are looking for solutions.

We've gotten a lot of positive feedback both from police and civilians. People are excited to see a tech company trying to help, and they have told us they feel safer when others are recording the scene in a peaceful and unbiased way. During our beta tests we had users help deter crime, break up fights, and support their neighbors.

Re: The Vigilante Manifesto

#14

Post by HorizonXP »

messel wrote: post #11
incongruity wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, the focus on murder rates is flawed for a few reasons: 1) Murders are not evenly distributed in most (all?) cities. In Chicago, for example, violence is heavily concentrated in certain areas. That means it's not a generalized problem yet this app doesn't address that clustering in a meaningful way. 2) Murders are not the crime that most people will feel comfortable intervening in – and, arguably, not on…

I consider this app as an extension of my senses. I get a push message when an emergency is happening nearby. Maybe I can help, maybe its none of my business, maybe I'll completely avoid that block. But I get a choice, where my earlier ignorance is no choice at all. It's the technological equivalent of someone shouting for help. You can assist or not. Disclaimer: I helped build the backend so I'm biased.

But how often is something like that even happening? I doubt many of Vigilante's users live in a place like Mogadishu, or Cape Town, or some stereotypical violent city where "avoiding an area" is necessary. And if you do, I'm not sure how the app really makes a difference.

Re: The Vigilante Manifesto

#15

Post by dsl »

jdmaresco wrote: post #3

We released a blog post and video to explain more about the vision behind the app: https://medium.com/@CrimeNoMore/vigilante-manifesto-e665696a...

How are you getting live access to 911 calls? Or are you just showing crimes reported by other users?

Re: The Vigilante Manifesto

#17

Post by maxerickson »

jdmaresco wrote: post #13
ch4s3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your claim about 2015 murder rates seems to be fear-mongering, from where I stand. The murder rate nationally is at a 51 year low, even with the 2015 uptick[1]. What exactly is the aim here? Your question "Could we restore trust between law enforcement and community" doesn't seem to be answered in the post, and the implication that your app could do this seems dubious. Is you aim to get people to flock to 911 calls a…

We debated whether to leave those statistics in, even though we're citing major sources. You can look at these statistics from different angles. Our main point is that there is still a real and often growing problem with violent crime, especially in the communities we're working with. Many people still feel very unsafe and are looking for solutions. We've gotten a lot of positive feedback both from police and civilia…

Which 5 communities have the most growth in violent crime?

(or 10 or 20 if you feel like it)

Re: The Vigilante Manifesto

#18

Post by daveguy »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #5

Apple really needs to get a different URL for the app store. My first thought was "what dumbass at Apple thought that would be a good idea?" Then I saw it was a non-Apple app.

No, apple didn't write it, but I am surprised it made it to the app store at all. This seems like it is ripe for abuse -- get instant updates on where the police are heading next!

Re: The Vigilante Manifesto

#19

Post by messel »

HorizonXP wrote: post #14
messel wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider this app as an extension of my senses. I get a push message when an emergency is happening nearby. Maybe I can help, maybe its none of my business, maybe I'll completely avoid that block. But I get a choice, where my earlier ignorance is no choice at all. It's the technological equivalent of someone shouting for help. You can assist or not. Disclaimer: I helped build the backend so I'm biased.

But how often is something like that even happening? I doubt many of Vigilante's users live in a place like Mogadishu, or Cape Town, or some stereotypical violent city where "avoiding an area" is necessary. And if you do, I'm not sure how the app really makes a difference.

Great question.

When I was a kid (11-12) I injured my neck and was pretty worried, stuck lying down, and my pop called 911 to ask for help. A neighbor two houses down was a volunteer fireman so he heard the call over the radio. He headed over and helped make my family and I much more calm while we waited for emergency professionals to show up.

Caring about the safety of people in your neighborhood is a great start. Technology playing a role feels like less of a gamble and more of an inevitability.

Re: The Vigilante Manifesto

#20

Post by jdmaresco »

SamBam wrote: post #10
jdmaresco wrote: post #3

We released a blog post and video to explain more about the vision behind the app: https://medium.com/@CrimeNoMore/vigilante-manifesto-e665696a...

In your video: "This is a real app, and these are real users." What does that even mean? "Real users" in this case means you downloaded a copy of the app onto their phone, before you started directing the actors?

All of the people in the video who are using the app and responding to the alert are actual users who have been actively participating in our beta in New York City.
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