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On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

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Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

#11

Post by gragas »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #2

I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe in then he wouldn't be trying to get…

> But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties.

How could WikiLeaks be interpreted as anything other than promoting civil liberties? Its sole purpose is to expose the corrupt behind-the-curtain dealings of leaders and political elite---to give power to the people and remove it from the corrupt.

> Why can't other people be rational like me.

You really need to get out of your own head.

Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

#12

Post by Frondo »

lhnz wrote: post #6

You can't just blame the attacker, it's poor information security practice which enabled the leaks.

If you want to assign responsibility for these leaks, assign it on the people who have taken action: the hackers who obtained them and the organization that published them.

Neither the writers nor recipients in this exchange bear responsibility for their exchange being published without their consent.

Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

#14

Post by hackuser »

gragas wrote: post #11
IIAOPSW wrote: post #2

I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe in then he wouldn't be trying to get…

> But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. How could WikiLeaks be interpreted as anything other than promoting civil liberties? Its sole purpose is to expose the corrupt behind-the-curtain dealings of leaders and political elite---to give power to the people and remove it from the corrupt. > Why can't othe…

> How could WikiLeaks be interpreted as anything other than promoting civil liberties? Its sole purpose ...

Perhaps taken at face value that's true, but I judge them by their actions:

* They consistently advocate for one political point of view, an anti-US government one. Where are leaks about Putin? Bernie Sanders? Jill Stein? For comparison, the NY Times is hard on both candidates: For example, they both broke the Clinton email server story and Trump's tax return.

* They are cooperating in what appears to be a Russian intelligence disinformation campaign to disrupt U.S. democracy. Assange seems too smart to be an unwitting participant.

* There are reports it's due to a vendetta Assange has against Clinton.

Based on the above and other actions, I question whether their mission really is to promote civil liberties.

Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

#15

Post by PavlovsCat »

cjdkcnsnd wrote: post #7
IIAOPSW wrote: post #2

I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe in then he wouldn't be trying to get…

Please just stop. Have we really become so blindly partisan as a nation that we complain about uneven distribution of evidence of corruption rather than the corruption itself? Ponder that for a moment, please.

> Please just stop.

That reminded me of John Stewart on Crossfire.. you're as correct now as he was then.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/15/cf.01.html

    STEWART: No, no, no, please.
    CARLSON: No, no, hold on. We've got commercials.
    (CROSSTALK)
    STEWART: Please. Please stop.
    CARLSON: Next, Jon Stewart in the "Rapid Fire."
    STEWART: Please stop.

Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

#16

Post by IIAOPSW »

cjdkcnsnd wrote: post #7
IIAOPSW wrote: post #2

I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe in then he wouldn't be trying to get…

Please just stop. Have we really become so blindly partisan as a nation that we complain about uneven distribution of evidence of corruption rather than the corruption itself? Ponder that for a moment, please.

That's not what I'm doing at all. I wouldn't mind if Assanage had simply gotten a leak and released it in a timely manner like he usually does. My opinion changed when he blatantly started timing his leaks to meddle in the election (AKA October surprise). He's not even meddling in favor of someone who is pro-civil liberties. His "October surprise" stunt isn't advancing the mission statement of wikileaks in any way. If his stunt does change the course of the election it will do absolutely nothing to help accountability or journalistic freedom. If anything a Trump presidency may actively hurt these freedoms. So let me beg the question. WTF is Assanage trying to accomplish here?

Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

#17

Post by tedunangst »

gragas wrote: post #11
IIAOPSW wrote: post #2

I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe in then he wouldn't be trying to get…

> But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. How could WikiLeaks be interpreted as anything other than promoting civil liberties? Its sole purpose is to expose the corrupt behind-the-curtain dealings of leaders and political elite---to give power to the people and remove it from the corrupt. > Why can't othe…

What possible corruption is revealed by the quoted email?

Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

#18

Post by IIAOPSW »

abgawrv wrote: post #10
IIAOPSW wrote: post #2

I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe in then he wouldn't be trying to get…

> Donald-lets-silence-my-critics-Trump As opposed to Hillary-lets-coopt-the-media-and-bribe-my-potential-critics-Clinton? I hate Donald Trump, but dismissing evidence because of the source is clearly misguided.

I didn't say anything about dismissing evidence. I simply said I've lost respect for Julian Assanage. The entire point of wikileaks is to inform the public without any filter because we are smart enough to judge things for ourselves. But now clearly Assanage is acting as a filter with the explicit goal of stopping a Clinton presidency. His support of Trump doesn't even promote the goals of his organization vis-a-vis journalistic freedoms. At some point one has to question why is Julian doing these things?

If Julian has lost track of the original goals of his organization then why should I care about his de facto incarceration? Why would I or anybody else donate to wikileaks? Why should the Ecuadorians keep him?

Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

#19

Post by [deleted] »

gragas wrote: post #11
IIAOPSW wrote: post #2

I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe in then he wouldn't be trying to get…

> But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. How could WikiLeaks be interpreted as anything other than promoting civil liberties? Its sole purpose is to expose the corrupt behind-the-curtain dealings of leaders and political elite---to give power to the people and remove it from the corrupt. > Why can't othe…

[deleted]

Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig

#20

Post by byuu »

cjdkcnsnd wrote: post #7
IIAOPSW wrote: post #2

I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe in then he wouldn't be trying to get…

Please just stop. Have we really become so blindly partisan as a nation that we complain about uneven distribution of evidence of corruption rather than the corruption itself? Ponder that for a moment, please.

While I am certain there are some troubling revelations in there, I fail to see how Neera Tanden shit-talking about Lawrence Lessig is in any way relevant to the public interest. It's simply an unethical violation of privacy. Had he filtered it to just the important stuff and released it right away, journalists and the public could be having real conversations about said material right now instead.

Of course, being fair, they didn't do that great a job with the release of cables in the past either. Being fair, my political bias probably swayed me into overlooking that back then more than I should have.

Transparency should be where it matters. People should have a right to privacy for personal comments such as this.

I think Julian being trapped in a room for the past several years has not been kind to his health. It's been a shame to see him reduced to a shill for one political party.

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