Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 30 posts

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#11

Post by noonespecial »

Buge wrote: post #10
noonespecial wrote: post #2

Until very recently, installing a solar system came with a great big helping of extra taxes! Thankfully that was just fixed by a landslide. http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/08/30/amendment-4-would-make-... But all is still not well. Our state government seems determined to protect us from "big solar". If only that were truly a problem! If you live in Florida, make sure to go vote even if you can't stomach either of our…

Are you advocating that people vote yes or no? Because the article doesn't really say which would be better for solar.

See the comment by dtnewman below. Sorry to be vague, I had that in mind. Amendment 4 was an important yes to kill the extraneous taxes on solar systems. The upcoming vote on 1 is a muddled mess that should be voted against until something reasonable can be introduced.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#12

Post by kuschku »

tomjen3 wrote: post #9

Why should non Solar users subsidise the grid for those who can install solar panels in sufficient quantities to matter? This probably means people who owns houses gets a subsidy from those who live in apartments, who are typically poorer.

Just split the bill into a variable and non-variable part, like most other countries do it?

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#13

Post by vamur »

Retail solar power is not viable currently. Cheapest reputable panel on aliexpress is about $1.2K for 1KW. Lead-acid on Amazon is about $500 per 1KWH (not counting shipping). Assuming backup of 30KWH it would require about $16.2K without inverters, cables, installation or shipping. And with these it can be 20-30K+.

So it is not surprising that retail solar is not viable without subsidies. Which are in essence wealth transfer from the poor to richer early adopters. On top of that it is a headache for grid operators who have to account for unpredictable inputs from retail solar power users.

Instead of the overly expensive retail solar power it would be better if subsidies went to the far cheaper solar powered ACs, solar panel water heaters, urban and outdoor lightning.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#14

Post by glenndebacker »

tomjen3 wrote: post #9

Why should non Solar users subsidise the grid for those who can install solar panels in sufficient quantities to matter? This probably means people who owns houses gets a subsidy from those who live in apartments, who are typically poorer.

Here in Belgium they did make that mistake. They issued green power certificates so people installing solar panels could receive some money.

After a while it became pricey and they needed to halt the program. Still they were obligated to pay those certificates to those who registered under that program. The consequence is that they needed to raise other energy taxes and a lot of families who are struggling are being hit extra hard.

The sickening part of the whole story is that we have big wealthy industrial families who have build complete solar farms under that program and pure for the certificates. Some are receiving 10 millions euro a year (for 20 years) and paid for a part by the poor.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#15

Post by sukilot »

vamur wrote: post #13

Retail solar power is not viable currently. Cheapest reputable panel on aliexpress is about $1.2K for 1KW. Lead-acid on Amazon is about $500 per 1KWH (not counting shipping). Assuming backup of 30KWH it would require about $16.2K without inverters, cables, installation or shipping. And with these it can be 20-30K+. So it is not surprising that retail solar is not viable without subsidies. Which are in essence wealth…

Why is solar powered AC cheaper than solar powered mains circuit?

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#16

Post by pjc50 »

vamur wrote: post #13

Retail solar power is not viable currently. Cheapest reputable panel on aliexpress is about $1.2K for 1KW. Lead-acid on Amazon is about $500 per 1KWH (not counting shipping). Assuming backup of 30KWH it would require about $16.2K without inverters, cables, installation or shipping. And with these it can be 20-30K+. So it is not surprising that retail solar is not viable without subsidies. Which are in essence wealth…

Storage is not required for retail solar, just grid-tie. All the non-carbon systems require subsidy.

The solar subsidy has been hugely effective at reducing prices.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#17

Post by magthor »

In my view Florida would be better served by deregulating their electricity markets (as 16 other states/territories have done) and allow 3rd party suppliers to compete for business. Then consumers who want solar (or other forms of green power) can buy it directly without having to put panels on their roof that will obsolete in a few years.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#18

Post by pjc50 »

glenndebacker wrote: post #14
tomjen3 wrote: post #9

Why should non Solar users subsidise the grid for those who can install solar panels in sufficient quantities to matter? This probably means people who owns houses gets a subsidy from those who live in apartments, who are typically poorer.

Here in Belgium they did make that mistake. They issued green power certificates so people installing solar panels could receive some money. After a while it became pricey and they needed to halt the program. Still they were obligated to pay those certificates to those who registered under that program. The consequence is that they needed to raise other energy taxes and a lot of families who are struggling are being…

What about the bigger, wealthier industrial families who have built coal mines and got subsidies for them too?

http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-koch-coal-idUSL2N14W1JJ20...

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#19

Post by sukilot »

jadei wrote: post #5
tracker1 wrote: post #3

I think if they added a provision for a fixed fee that needs state congressional approval to change would at least clear things up. In the end, at least here in AZ, roughly half the electric bill is separated to "delivery" fees, which are supposed to cover infrastructure and maintenance. If those were a fixed fee, then it'd be easier to calculate the advantage or not of solar. Another risk in Florida, is the solar pa…

I had solar pool panels that did fine through hurricane Mathew in west palm beach. They are pvc and plastic I think. I was worried about them flying but they must have been engineered right as far as roof connections (plus the winds remained mostly tropical strength with a few hurricane gusts.)

Yeah you get very little hurricane damage if you built outside of the area the hurricane hits. But what if you don't?

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Get Solar in Florida

#20

Post by sukilot »

glenndebacker wrote: post #14
tomjen3 wrote: post #9

Why should non Solar users subsidise the grid for those who can install solar panels in sufficient quantities to matter? This probably means people who owns houses gets a subsidy from those who live in apartments, who are typically poorer.

Here in Belgium they did make that mistake. They issued green power certificates so people installing solar panels could receive some money. After a while it became pricey and they needed to halt the program. Still they were obligated to pay those certificates to those who registered under that program. The consequence is that they needed to raise other energy taxes and a lot of families who are struggling are being…

They could have chosen to tax solar power or property to cover the loss, but they chose to tax the average person. That was choice, not an accident.
Post reply on HN