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Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

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11–20 of 58 posts

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#11
post #6

Sort of puts our defense spending and progress in perspective when the USAF takes a $21M 4th gen fighter - when most of the world's air forces still have 4th gen fighters in development , mind you - and basically uses it like the cheap clay target shooting skeet you can buy at Walmart.

As I understand it most of these airframes aren't fit to fly with a crew anymore because they've aged out. Airframes that don't get into this program get scrapped.

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#12

I kind of understand why they want to develop the capability, but also am dubious of its value for a plane designed around a human pilot. So, if the plane is going to do anything useful, it needs to get to its target intact and ready, and to be honest that's more about logistics and geography than human or not pilots. Maybe it can stay on-station longer but that sounds more like a duty roster benefit than a tactical…

This is for war gaming and practice.

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#13
post #11
post #6

Sort of puts our defense spending and progress in perspective when the USAF takes a $21M 4th gen fighter - when most of the world's air forces still have 4th gen fighters in development , mind you - and basically uses it like the cheap clay target shooting skeet you can buy at Walmart.

As I understand it most of these airframes aren't fit to fly with a crew anymore because they've aged out. Airframes that don't get into this program get scrapped.

Indeed, the F16 was originally designed for about 8 000 hours of service time. And most airframes appear to have lasted about 20 years.

Once your aircraft gets to the point it will start to fail, why not use it as a few as a target?

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#14
Note that QF-16's, not F-16's, are the unmanned/drone version of the F-16.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting...

PS- I'd be worried about these being controlled by an AI or hacked. MQ-9's are small and go 300 MPH, so, while they're deadly, I wasn't worried about them as much. F-16's can go 1,350 MPH and can be "well-armed".

USAF just bought 30 more QF-16's bring the fleet to 106. Then "Air Force leaders are expected to buy a total of 120 QF-16 target drones through 2019. Optionally Air Force leaders are considering buying a total of 210 QF-16 through 2022. The fleet should last until 2025."

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2016/03/qf-16-targ...

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#15
post #14

Note that QF-16's, not F-16's, are the unmanned/drone version of the F-16. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting... PS- I'd be worried about these being controlled by an AI or hacked. MQ-9's are small and go 300 MPH, so, while they're deadly, I wasn't worried about them as much. F-16's can go 1,350 MPH and can be "well-armed". USAF…

These are target drones, and unlikely to be armed with anything or operated near high-value infrastructure susceptible to the relatively minor impact damage of which a QF-16 might be capable.

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#16

I kind of understand why they want to develop the capability, but also am dubious of its value for a plane designed around a human pilot. So, if the plane is going to do anything useful, it needs to get to its target intact and ready, and to be honest that's more about logistics and geography than human or not pilots. Maybe it can stay on-station longer but that sounds more like a duty roster benefit than a tactical…

The use of manned target drones is somewhat frowned upon in the military aviation community.

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#18
post #6

Sort of puts our defense spending and progress in perspective when the USAF takes a $21M 4th gen fighter - when most of the world's air forces still have 4th gen fighters in development , mind you - and basically uses it like the cheap clay target shooting skeet you can buy at Walmart.

They are shot at with missiles, but are rarely every 'shot down'. They can use fully capable missiles without warheads. A "kill" is getting the missile to a point that it would detonate, which likely means flying very close but not actually touching the target. You don't use manned craft, but you still expect the target to survive most encounters.

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#19
post #8

"Initial operating capability or Initial operational capability (IOC) is the state achieved when a capability is available in its minimum usefully deployable form. The term is often used in government or military procurement." Military MVP? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_operating_capability

IOC, military minimum viable product :) upvoted

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#20
post #2

This is nothing new. The USAF has had unmanned F-4 phantoms for decades that are used for target practice and live fire weapons testing. The F-4 fleet is being replaced with surplus F-16s.

I thought the aside in the article about unmanned "missile trucks" controlled by a latest gen manned fighter was interesting.

It's part of a rarely-discussed issue with beyond-visual range (BVR) missiles. For all the hype about technology, they have a horrifically low kill rate against live and aware target. If you look at stats against maneuvering opponents actually beyond visual range, ones with the senors to detect the radar-guided missile approaching, the kill rate is on the order of 15%. Doing the math, the fancy new fighters don't have the missile capacity to confidently down any BVR target, hence the need for a "truck".
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