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Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

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Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#11
post #9

I know it's not really relevant to the repair work, but I jumped back to the first article, at http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-resto... . It says > The biggest impact of the Alto was in 1979 when Steve Jobs famously toured Xerox and saw the Alto and other machines. When Jobs saw the advanced graphics of the Alto and Star, he was inspired to base the user interfaces of the Lisa and Macintosh sys…

You can't seriously expect factual accuracy from Malcolm Gladwell.

Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#12
post #9

I know it's not really relevant to the repair work, but I jumped back to the first article, at http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-resto... . It says > The biggest impact of the Alto was in 1979 when Steve Jobs famously toured Xerox and saw the Alto and other machines. When Jobs saw the advanced graphics of the Alto and Star, he was inspired to base the user interfaces of the Lisa and Macintosh sys…

This doesn't mean Macintosh wasn't inspired by Xerox , even if they started work with Macintosh and Lisa there's is big chance getting first hand look at Xerox they have changed their approach drastically. Even if Android was in development before iphone debute they got drastic inspiration from iphone UI.

Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#13
post #9

I know it's not really relevant to the repair work, but I jumped back to the first article, at http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-resto... . It says > The biggest impact of the Alto was in 1979 when Steve Jobs famously toured Xerox and saw the Alto and other machines. When Jobs saw the advanced graphics of the Alto and Star, he was inspired to base the user interfaces of the Lisa and Macintosh sys…

Chapter 23 of "Dealers of Lightning" points out that everyone describes the Steve Jobs visit(s) in contradictory ways. "No anecdote from PARC's history is burdened by so much contradictory testimony. PARC engineers disagree about who delivered what portions of the demonstration; on how many demos there were and when they took place; whether Jobs and his people saw an Alto or a Dorado..."

I recommend "Dealers of Lightning" for the best description of Steve Jobs' visits and their impact on him. The short summary is there were two visits to PARC in December 1979. Adele Goldberg tried to demonstrate just the publicly-announced technology (WYSIWYG browser, mouse, drawing program) but was forced by management to show Steve Jobs all the secret stuff (e.g. Smalltalk, overlapping windows). Steve Jobs considered the three mind-bending things he saw to be the user interface, object-oriented programming and networking, but he was "saturated" by the UI and missed the significance of the others. The book goes into detail on exactly what Apple was doing before the visit and how it changed their plans. The book has a whole chapter on this, way more than I can cover here, so please read the book if you're interested in this.

Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#14
post #9

I know it's not really relevant to the repair work, but I jumped back to the first article, at http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-resto... . It says > The biggest impact of the Alto was in 1979 when Steve Jobs famously toured Xerox and saw the Alto and other machines. When Jobs saw the advanced graphics of the Alto and Star, he was inspired to base the user interfaces of the Lisa and Macintosh sys…

> the Macintosh was going to feature user-friendly interfaces; a screen that could handle multiple fonts (that is, bitmapped screens); graphics capabilities; and a graphical input device.

There is a big difference between having a bitmapped screen and graphical input on one hand, and having a Starlike WIMP user interface on the other. This sounds like it was written by someone who has never seen anything else.

Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#15
post #3

Hah! Nice job on inverting the random number generator. And note that RNGs for testing data patterns have much less stringent requirements than cryptographically secure RNGs :-). I'm hopeful that a known good disk will actually boot something.

Getting a good RNG on 1970s hardware is almost impossible without some kind of custom device. There is no end to examples of horrible RNGs from that era, sometimes manifesting in amusing ways. There was an implementation of Minesweeper that naively used the rand() call from C's standard library and generated utterly predictable boards. I am rather impressed at how the author of the article actually tracked down the a…

What made it possible to track down the RNG function was that the Computer History Museum has a big archive of Alto code [1]. By searching that site with Google, I found the random number source code. Of course figuring out the code is a bit of a challenge since it's in BCPL or Nova assembly.

Hopefully as part of our Alto restoration we'll be able to add more old Alto disks to the online archive. Maybe the disk labeled "Alan Demo" will have an exciting long-lost Alan Kay demo on it :-)

[1] http://xeroxalto.computerhistory.org

Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#16
post #9

I know it's not really relevant to the repair work, but I jumped back to the first article, at http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-resto... . It says > The biggest impact of the Alto was in 1979 when Steve Jobs famously toured Xerox and saw the Alto and other machines. When Jobs saw the advanced graphics of the Alto and Star, he was inspired to base the user interfaces of the Lisa and Macintosh sys…

You can't seriously expect factual accuracy from Malcolm Gladwell.

Dealers in Lightning would seem to contradict Gladwell's account plus the first video with the others being background.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOF-j6Nxm04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J33pVRdxWbw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1rXqD6M614

Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#17
post #9

I know it's not really relevant to the repair work, but I jumped back to the first article, at http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-resto... . It says > The biggest impact of the Alto was in 1979 when Steve Jobs famously toured Xerox and saw the Alto and other machines. When Jobs saw the advanced graphics of the Alto and Star, he was inspired to base the user interfaces of the Lisa and Macintosh sys…

I agree that its a great story. Like all good stories it tries to distill the point from a much more complex and nuanced world. And because the world is more complicated than narrative fiction, there are always other aspects that contribute or can be portrayed in different ways.

The reality of things as I came to understand them were these; Jef Raskin was passionate about user interface design like few people I have ever known. The folks at PARC were excited about the possibilities offered by the advanced state of the art in graphics and input devices and they had some really excellent thinkers and engineers who were implementing really different ways of interacting with computers. Steve Jobs was passionate about design with strong opinions on what was "right" and what was "wrong" about any given product feature.

Now you have to put that into an engineering context. Apple is building a new computer system, one of its, if not THE, lead designers has ideas about how the user will interact with it. The company is pushing back on these ideas because they are "radical and new" and questioning how the engineers know that this will be a better way to build computers than the existing examples in the Apple II and CP/M machines of the day. So this conversation within Apple gets more and more energetic. If you are in an engineering company and are leading any sort of project you will have this experience. You propose something different than what the company expects, and the company pushes back on that proposal in a bunch of different ways. In an effect that is oddly reminiscent of how a band-gap forms in a PN junction, groups line up for or against the concept. And it percolates up the management chain until someone in authority "decides" and shuts down all of the side conversations.

Having had conversations with various people both on the Xerox side and the Apple side who were part of that experience, I concluded that Steve Job's visit to PARC where he saw a realized example of what Jef was trying to push through, convinced Steve that it was better design. I based that conclusion on stories about how the conversation within Apple changed once Steve had seen for himself the possibilities presented by a window based system with a pointing device. Jef related in a talk that he gave about interface design that resistance to the ideas essentially evaporated once Steve was on board.

So is that the "real" story? I don't know. It is the most likely explanation of events that followed all of the statements I heard from people who participated in the design of the Macintosh/Lisa and people who build XDE and Star (the Xerox Development Environment and their office suite). Does it matter? I don't know that it does, the origin story for the Macintosh is what it is.

Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#18
post #13
post #9

I know it's not really relevant to the repair work, but I jumped back to the first article, at http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-resto... . It says > The biggest impact of the Alto was in 1979 when Steve Jobs famously toured Xerox and saw the Alto and other machines. When Jobs saw the advanced graphics of the Alto and Star, he was inspired to base the user interfaces of the Lisa and Macintosh sys…

Chapter 23 of "Dealers of Lightning" points out that everyone describes the Steve Jobs visit(s) in contradictory ways. "No anecdote from PARC's history is burdened by so much contradictory testimony. PARC engineers disagree about who delivered what portions of the demonstration; on how many demos there were and when they took place; whether Jobs and his people saw an Alto or a Dorado..." I recommend "Dealers of Light…

No surprise that Jobs would fixate on the UI thing. He never struck me as a techie, but someone that got into tech because it was easy to mesmerize people with. The UI was a perfect tool for that.

Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#19
The shift-xor "random" number generator described actually has an interesting property. The algorithm looks like this:

1. If the value is 0, output the magic number.

2. If the value has only its high bit set, output 0.

3. Otherwise, shift the value to the left

4. if there was an overflow (the high bit was 1 before the shift), xor the value by a magic constant.

For certain values of the magic constant, this has the property of generating every integer in the range exactly once.

Re: Restoring YC's Xerox Alto: how our boot disk was trashed with random data

#20
post #13
post #9

I know it's not really relevant to the repair work, but I jumped back to the first article, at http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-resto... . It says > The biggest impact of the Alto was in 1979 when Steve Jobs famously toured Xerox and saw the Alto and other machines. When Jobs saw the advanced graphics of the Alto and Star, he was inspired to base the user interfaces of the Lisa and Macintosh sys…

Chapter 23 of "Dealers of Lightning" points out that everyone describes the Steve Jobs visit(s) in contradictory ways. "No anecdote from PARC's history is burdened by so much contradictory testimony. PARC engineers disagree about who delivered what portions of the demonstration; on how many demos there were and when they took place; whether Jobs and his people saw an Alto or a Dorado..." I recommend "Dealers of Light…

Your comment reminded me of this interview [1] with Steve Jobs:

"And they showed me really three things, but I was so blinded by the first one that I didn't even really see the other two.

One of the things they showed me was Object Oriented Programming. They showed me that, but I didn't even see that.

The other one they showed me was really a networked computer system. They had over a hundred Alto computers, all networked, using email, et cetera, et cetera. I didn't even see that.

I was so blinded by the first thing they showed me, which was the Graphical User Interface. I thought it was the best thing I'd ever seen in my life. Now remember, it was very flawed; what we saw was incomplete, they'd done a bunch of things wrong, but we didn't know that at the time. Still though, the germ of the idea was there, and they'd done it very well.

And, within, you know, ten minutes, it was obvious to me that all computers would work like this. Basically, they were copier-heads that just had no clue about a computer or what it could do. And so they just grabbed defeat from the greatest victory in the computer industry. Xerox could have owned the entire computer industry today. Could have been a company ten times its size. Could have been IBM. Could have been the IBM of the 90s. Could have been the Microsoft of the 90s."

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK7TQVFSA1Y&t=56

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