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How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

haseebq.com

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Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#11

Post by Hydraulix989 »

paulcole wrote: post #7
akhilcacharya wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He explains himself here: http://haseebq.com/about/ If you didn't see his previous posts he's clearly a pretty skilled self-teacher - negotiated up to 220K offers at Google and Airbnb despite going to a bootcamp.

>he's clearly a pretty skilled self-teacher I think it's pronounced "self-promoter."

Yeah, this is just sad.

I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that.

These are surely some of the smartest people in the world, too, but I suppose they don't play the "bluffing" game all too well (er, "negotation" -- call it whatever you want, ex-poker player).

I'm not sure what makes this guy who ostensibly got his hand held through a three-month "learn to copy and paste Ruby from StackOverflow" camp eligible for a salary that is higher than some surgeons make.

Without reading the article, sounds like he successfully bluffed to one company that another offered him some really high salary X, and then he went straight to the moon (or should I say, made out like a bandit) from there.

As much as we like to think our hiring process is meritocratic, when confronted with someone with just the right physical characteristics or the right charismatic charm, our human social biases still seem to have a lot more power over us than we'd like to admit.

I remember that one study that successfully correlated inches in height/stature to substantial dollar increases in salary.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#13

Post by tamana »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #11
paulcole wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he's clearly a pretty skilled self-teacher I think it's pronounced "self-promoter."

Yeah, this is just sad. I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that. These are surely some of the smartest people in the world, too, but I suppose they don't play the "bluffing" game all too well (er, "negotation" -- call it wh…

You don't understand how supply and demand works, or that job offers are for how smart you are and what you can do, not how hard you worked in school. In fact, people who work harder to learn something are usually less talented than people who learned it quickly.

The computer details aren't the hard part of software jobs.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#14

Post by jc4p »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #11
paulcole wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he's clearly a pretty skilled self-teacher I think it's pronounced "self-promoter."

Yeah, this is just sad. I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that. These are surely some of the smartest people in the world, too, but I suppose they don't play the "bluffing" game all too well (er, "negotation" -- call it wh…

I wouldn't call it sad at all. It's all a game, and these are the people that are playing to win (by their definition of "winning", which is a lot of people's: maximizing monetary gains)

I agree with a lot of what you say (and in fact, I work at a company that doesn't allow negotiations at all and has an open salary calculator: http://stackoverflow.com/company/salary/calculator ) but I wouldn't call it sad at all, I would call it playing the game.

I'm saying without any attempt at being rude: You're thinking way too much like a programmer.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#16

Post by arkadiyt »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #11
paulcole wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he's clearly a pretty skilled self-teacher I think it's pronounced "self-promoter."

Yeah, this is just sad. I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that. These are surely some of the smartest people in the world, too, but I suppose they don't play the "bluffing" game all too well (er, "negotation" -- call it wh…

I disagree.

From his about page:

> I quickly rose to the top of my class, and after two months into the three-month bootcamp, I was asked to join the instructional team. Three months later, I was promoted to Director of Product.

That wouldn't have happened if he wasn't good at what he does. Clearly he is doing something that is more than just the right charm.

Also, letting go of whatever opinion you have about his technical skill, absolutely everyone should negotiate their salary. I never have though, for many of the reasons outlined in his first post. Thanks to his writing I will definitely negotiate whenever my next change happens and apply his techniques - his writing has provided a huge amount of value to engineers everywhere in the same position.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#17

Post by _gjav »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #11
paulcole wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he's clearly a pretty skilled self-teacher I think it's pronounced "self-promoter."

Yeah, this is just sad. I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that. These are surely some of the smartest people in the world, too, but I suppose they don't play the "bluffing" game all too well (er, "negotation" -- call it wh…

He didn't get a 250k salary, that was total compensation, largely RSUs on a standard vesting schedule. He also donates 1/3rd of his pre-tax income to charity.

He wasn't just a graduate of a hacker bootcamp, he was hired on by App Academy after he finished and was quickly promoted up to Director of Product. He spent a lot of time teaching people how to pass whiteboard interviews. He was probably better prepared for an interview than your average Stanford CS grad, and already had prior experience as Director of Product and a portfolio of side projects.

He didn't bluff any company. He went through Triple Byte, the trendiest new tech recruitment startup. He got an offer from Triple Byte themselves even though he didn't even apply for them, got an offer from Google, and when word about the Google offer got out every other company started bidding for him.

He's also just a really smart guy in general. If you spend 15 minutes talking to him, he'll leave an impression. It's not a bluff or a con, he's just a really smart, really analytical guy.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#18

Post by 35bge57dtjku »

ryanmccullagh wrote: post #9
35bge57dtjku wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had success with asking for modest increases. I think it helps to have a good reason, like them not doing any 401k matching.

Is the median salary for the position a valid reason for an increase? For example 93000 is the median for software engineers in US according to the government.

I wouldn't specify 'median' exactly. That sounds too technical - it doesn't have the same innocence and emotional appeal. I'd mention what other local companies are hiring for the same position at, and mention being surprised they aren't offering at least that. Or mention having friends that got hired for the same position at a salary that's 10k more than you're being offered. If you do it smoothly, I think the worst case scenario should be that they say they can't go any higher, or that they come back with a higher offer that's only 1/2 or 1/4 more than what you mentioned. Like Sun Tzu said, don't corner the enemy.
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