Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#11

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 3:39 PM UTC

nothis wrote: post #3

Disappointingly little concrete information of what's in now, anyone knows how to read these things and skimmed the original text? I heard that EU "net neutrality" is disappointlngly vague. I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify, which, in my understanding, is exactly what net neutrality should prevent.

I think you have to click through to the PDF at the side of http://berec.europa.eu/eng/document_register/subject_matter/...

It does cover this (search for zero-rating) although in a way that I find hard to summarise.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#12

Post by ORioN63 » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 3:41 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #7

nothis wrote: post #3

Disappointingly little concrete information of what's in now, anyone knows how to read these things and skimmed the original text? I heard that EU "net neutrality" is disappointlngly vague. I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify, which, in my understanding, is exactly what net neutrality should prevent.

>> "I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify" Any source for this? I've only ever seen providers offer free Spotify membership, not free data. Edit: Thanks for the responses. I had no idea this was happening.

From Portugal:

http://www.wtf.pt/ Look for "APPS COM TRÁFEGO ILIMITADO" (Free data apps). You can see the apps below.

or

http://www.yorn.net/YORN/tarifario/yorn-x/index.htm#apps

I'm not even sure it's legal, but people don't really care/see it as a problem.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#13

Post by swinglock » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 3:43 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #7

nothis wrote: post #3

Disappointingly little concrete information of what's in now, anyone knows how to read these things and skimmed the original text? I heard that EU "net neutrality" is disappointlngly vague. I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify, which, in my understanding, is exactly what net neutrality should prevent.

>> "I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify" Any source for this? I've only ever seen providers offer free Spotify membership, not free data. Edit: Thanks for the responses. I had no idea this was happening.

Swedens I believe largest operators 3 and Telia has unlimited or a large amount of data that doesn't count towards the usual data limits when using specially selected services such as Spotify and Facebook.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#14

Post by lorenzhs » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 3:45 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #7

nothis wrote: post #3

Disappointingly little concrete information of what's in now, anyone knows how to read these things and skimmed the original text? I heard that EU "net neutrality" is disappointlngly vague. I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify, which, in my understanding, is exactly what net neutrality should prevent.

>> "I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify" Any source for this? I've only ever seen providers offer free Spotify membership, not free data. Edit: Thanks for the responses. I had no idea this was happening.

T-mobile used to do this in Germany until earlier this month. In their FAQ [1], they state that the following in spotify count against customers' data plan: videos, album covers, sharing, and Spotify's "discovery" feature. They add a flat 100MB to the data plan to cover that. Note that the streaming of music is not included, so it doesn't count towards data usage.

They stopped offering this to new customers on August 2nd, 2016.

[1] https://www.telekom.de/hilfe/mobilfunk-mobiles-internet/mobi... (in German)

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#15

Post by pille » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 3:46 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #7

nothis wrote: post #3

Disappointingly little concrete information of what's in now, anyone knows how to read these things and skimmed the original text? I heard that EU "net neutrality" is disappointlngly vague. I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify, which, in my understanding, is exactly what net neutrality should prevent.

>> "I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify" Any source for this? I've only ever seen providers offer free Spotify membership, not free data. Edit: Thanks for the responses. I had no idea this was happening.

Deutsche Telekom was doing this and advertising it in Germany a few years ago but they've since stopped[1]. Spotify data didn't count against your (usually very slim) mobile data limit.

[1] http://www.golem.de/news/netzneutralitaet-telekom-fuehrt-dro...

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#16

Post by H4wk_cz » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #7

nothis wrote: post #3

Disappointingly little concrete information of what's in now, anyone knows how to read these things and skimmed the original text? I heard that EU "net neutrality" is disappointlngly vague. I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify, which, in my understanding, is exactly what net neutrality should prevent.

>> "I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify" Any source for this? I've only ever seen providers offer free Spotify membership, not free data. Edit: Thanks for the responses. I had no idea this was happening.

Czech O2 offers free data for Spotify and 3 months of free premium membership.

http://www.o2.cz/osobni/spotify/ (in czech)

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#17

Post by thr0waway1239 » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:04 PM UTC

I once heard an interview with the Economist digital editor Tom Standage where he claims (at 5:45 into the interview) that net neutrality is the wrong thing to focus on, and the important thing is just making sure there is more competition between the telcos. Can someone more familiar with this issue tell me if this argument is correct?

https://www.podcat.com/podcasts/i63zqo-untether-tv-mobile-st...

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#18

Post by kartan » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:11 PM UTC

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #17

I once heard an interview with the Economist digital editor Tom Standage where he claims (at 5:45 into the interview) that net neutrality is the wrong thing to focus on, and the important thing is just making sure there is more competition between the telcos. Can someone more familiar with this issue tell me if this argument is correct? https://www.podcat.com/podcasts/i63zqo-untether-tv-mobile-st...

The argument doesn't makes sense. When a normal citizen is choosing her internet provider they are not going to expend a lot of time looking at the implications of their decision. If the services is cheap enough and has the thing that they usually use then they are done. Competition can easy bring cheaper services but hardly can bring improving in long term needs.

That's why we have laws that forbid companies to pollute the environment, restrict child labor and the like. Consumers will choose the short term benefits for themselves over the long term benefits for the society.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#19

Post by johansch » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #17

I once heard an interview with the Economist digital editor Tom Standage where he claims (at 5:45 into the interview) that net neutrality is the wrong thing to focus on, and the important thing is just making sure there is more competition between the telcos. Can someone more familiar with this issue tell me if this argument is correct? https://www.podcat.com/podcasts/i63zqo-untether-tv-mobile-st...

Those seem like two worthy goals that are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#20

Post by bduerst » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:16 PM UTC

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #17

I once heard an interview with the Economist digital editor Tom Standage where he claims (at 5:45 into the interview) that net neutrality is the wrong thing to focus on, and the important thing is just making sure there is more competition between the telcos. Can someone more familiar with this issue tell me if this argument is correct? https://www.podcat.com/podcasts/i63zqo-untether-tv-mobile-st...

They're saying that the U.S. ISP companies have regional monopolies, and that net neutrality wouldn't be as much of an issue if there were substitute service providers per region.

This honestly isn't true, because if we had a marketplace for ISPs, most consumers would pick the cheapest option, which would probably be the one that subsidizes it's revenue from charging companies like Netflix. Some smaller companies that don't care about full market access wouldn't pay, and then you're at a tiered internet structure not unlike cable packages.

He's only saying it's a "red herring" because ISP monopolies and net neutrality are different issues.