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Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

defectivebydesign.org

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Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#11

Post by abritinthebay »

6stringmerc wrote: post #8
madaxe_again wrote: post #2

It appears the EFF intend to fight section 1201 (thou shalt not circumvent) on first amendment free speech arguments, and on the idea that punishment for circumvention creates a chilling effect. I don't think a court will buy it. They'll argue that 1201 protects the free speech of content creators, and that it works as intended - and they will cite the decss appeal, which was won by the media giants on the same argum…

In a previous discussion, I was informed of a mistaken assumption of mine: There was a case where Section 1201 was ruled as more applicable than Fair Use. It's my belief - and apparently questionable in reality - that Fair Use that passes the four-factor test should absolutely be exempt from DMCA restrictions. If the EFF case can somehow convince the court that the chilling effect is real, I will be thoroughly impres…

> the merit of the DMCA is to curtail incentive to engage in infringement on an industrial scale.

But that is not what the law says. It is written in much more broad, general, terms. If they get them to say that in court then it would be a huge step forward.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#12

Post by superuser2 »

throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

I've taken to viewing Kindle books as a very expensive indefinite-but-temporary library loan. Between the years+ length of the borrowing period, instant delivery, lighted screen, compactness, and travel-friendliness it can be worth the premium over a public library loan. In dollars per hour of entertainment, it's better than some options. But it is ultimately a rental.

If you have a relatively progressive library and prefer to cope with scarcity by waiting for a "digital copy" to become available and then reading the book in a narrow time window (rather than paying ~$10), you can generally get an actual temporary Kindle book from your library for free.

If the Kindle price is too high for a book that will eventually leave your possession, buy it on paper.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#13

Post by acdha »

T0T0R0 wrote: post #10
throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

The only scenario, in which DRM makes any sense at all, is B2B patronage. Other businesses probably SHOULD license hobbled, encrypted garbage from provider businesses. It's a use case where a collective group of people decide to use a pre-defined set of noises and pictures for some reason or another. But who cares why, and no one on the consumer side of that transaction really owns the media samples directly. The pro…

A lot of this comes down to terminology: the people who are the most upset about DRM are the people who thought they were “buying” something in the same manner as a physical item and are at some point rudely reminded that the company considers it more like a temporary license. Very few people mind services like Netflix or Spotify because it's extremely clear that you're paying for a month of access at a time.

I doubt we're going to get much legal change in the short term but imagine how different the discussion would be if there was a clear labeling law which required either labeling things as rentals with a very clear time window or the company is required to either provide access or refund your money should their system lock you out.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#14

Post by pdkl95 »

bsharitt wrote: post #9
throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

I'll only buy DRM content as long as I can easily remove it, and right now the only DRM content I regularly buy is books mostly from Google and Amazon. The first thing i strip the DRM and archive it.

I recommend against the buy-and-strip approach, because you are still signaling that you are ok with (some) DRM. The only signal you are sending back to the manufacturer is your purchase. The only thing the manufacturer sees is how the addition of DRM affects their profit, and you're telling them that the DRM is acceptable.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#15

Post by mtgx »

madaxe_again wrote: post #2

It appears the EFF intend to fight section 1201 (thou shalt not circumvent) on first amendment free speech arguments, and on the idea that punishment for circumvention creates a chilling effect. I don't think a court will buy it. They'll argue that 1201 protects the free speech of content creators, and that it works as intended - and they will cite the decss appeal, which was won by the media giants on the same argum…

The courts may not buy it, but I don't think it will be for the reason you say (protecting authors' free speech).

I think the argument against that would be "the authors are free to protect their content, but users can't be forced to use that protection", similar to how someone is allowed to insult you, but you can't be forced to listen to those insults.

In other words, content owners will be free to use whatever DRM mechanism they wish, but it wouldn't be illegal for someone to break it, if they can do that. And that's basically EFF's argument, too.

I think this is similar to how some Courts have said that advertisers are free to show ads up in your face, but you're also totally free to block them. Maybe the EFF can use that argument in Courts as a more "practical" analogy to make the judge understand.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#16

Post by vollmond »

throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

And now I know what I'm doing tonight.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#17

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

6stringmerc wrote: post #6

The link is to a reasonably thought out and worded perspective from that of a technology industry participant. As noted within, there are some guiding principles which establish the basis for perspective and action. As in, the Free Software Foundation wouldn't be interested in participating in the for-profit software market. For a counter-point, when this case first broke and I was able to study the implications from…

> As in, the Free Software Foundation wouldn't be interested in participating in the for-profit software market.

You are mistaken. The FSF does not object to making a profit with software. In fact, they have been selling software themselves. It's about free as in freedom, not about free as in beer.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#18

Post by nickbauman »

acdha wrote: post #13
T0T0R0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only scenario, in which DRM makes any sense at all, is B2B patronage. Other businesses probably SHOULD license hobbled, encrypted garbage from provider businesses. It's a use case where a collective group of people decide to use a pre-defined set of noises and pictures for some reason or another. But who cares why, and no one on the consumer side of that transaction really owns the media samples directly. The pro…

A lot of this comes down to terminology: the people who are the most upset about DRM are the people who thought they were “buying” something in the same manner as a physical item and are at some point rudely reminded that the company considers it more like a temporary license. Very few people mind services like Netflix or Spotify because it's extremely clear that you're paying for a month of access at a time. I doubt…

This is why generally I don't buy Amazon stuff for my kindle. 99% of my kindle contains stuff that was either free in the first place (ibilio, gutenberg proj, etc) or was purchased without DRM installed.

I made an exception with Audible but I'm going to cancel it because while I love the idea of Audible, I've been racking up freebees every month and not pulling the trigger because I just don't have the time.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#19

Post by in_the_sticks »

6stringmerc wrote: post #6

The link is to a reasonably thought out and worded perspective from that of a technology industry participant. As noted within, there are some guiding principles which establish the basis for perspective and action. As in, the Free Software Foundation wouldn't be interested in participating in the for-profit software market. For a counter-point, when this case first broke and I was able to study the implications from…

That essay could start off better. Assigning your side blue and the opposing side red and then immediately showing that red==bad, blue==good feels kind of hostile to opposing views.
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