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Truth in stereotypes

aeon.co

11–20 of 93 posts

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#11
post #5

The accuracy or inaccuracy of stereotypes reminds me of the regulations and ethical debates regarding the use of machine learning for example for creditworthiness. The algorithms often turn out to become "racist", because from the data they have, race is a good predictor. I'm still somewhat ambivalent on that, because I'm not convinced that statistics can be racist. But people pointed out to me that the way these sta…

> Those are pretty good points, but I still find it weird that we forbid businesses to use all the information they have available to make business decisions.

Every rule in society can be formulated as a constraint on businesses. Typically, minimum wage prevents companies from making business decisions that would otherwise be profitable. Banning script money as a payment for wages also prevents them from making these decisions. This stems from the fact that the society view the common good as more important than the business interest of some of its members.

In that sense, making decisions based on data is an action like any other, and is subject to common scrutiny.

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#12
post #5

The accuracy or inaccuracy of stereotypes reminds me of the regulations and ethical debates regarding the use of machine learning for example for creditworthiness. The algorithms often turn out to become "racist", because from the data they have, race is a good predictor. I'm still somewhat ambivalent on that, because I'm not convinced that statistics can be racist. But people pointed out to me that the way these sta…

In a way, it's a somewhat underhanded move - since it's too politically hard to directly help those communities and fix those inputs at the source, we'll create a hidden tax on a bunch of businesses and individuals to do it for us.

On the other hand, if the alternative is no help at all, I can't blame the proponents of those measures.

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#13
post #6

Is this surprising? I've always thought, logically, that for a stereotype to become popular and remain so, it's got to be a better quick rule of thumb assessment than an alternative stereotype, ergo there must be some small kernel of truth or statistical disposition underlying it. I remember it was an opinion that got me reamed out once by a rather terrible, but idealistic middle-school teacher.

Let me quote Daniel Kahneman in "Thinking, Fast and Slow"

"The social norm against stereotyping, including the opposition to profiling, has been highly beneficial in creating a more civilized and more equal society. It is useful to remember, however, that neglecting valid stereotypes inevitably results in suboptimal judgments. Resistance to stereotyping is a laudable moral position, but the simplistic idea that the resistance is costless is wrong. The costs are worth paying to achieve a better society, but denying that the costs exist, while satisfying to the soul and politically correct, is not scientifically defensible. Reliance on the affect heuristic is common in politically charged arguments. The positions we favor have no cost and those we oppose have no benefits. We should be able to do better."

–Daniel Kahneman, Nobel laureate, in Thinking, Fast and Slow, chapter 16

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#14
post #2

I suspect much of this unease about stereotypes and researching them comes from the scientific community not wanting their work to be used to justify extremism or far right/far left political parties. After what happened with both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union misrepresenting scientific research to 'support' their policies, I suspect a lot of researchers want to avoid their own work being used for the same purpos…

After what happened with both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union

Or in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#...

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#15
post #5

The accuracy or inaccuracy of stereotypes reminds me of the regulations and ethical debates regarding the use of machine learning for example for creditworthiness. The algorithms often turn out to become "racist", because from the data they have, race is a good predictor. I'm still somewhat ambivalent on that, because I'm not convinced that statistics can be racist. But people pointed out to me that the way these sta…

> I'm not convinced that statistics can be racist

This really depends on whether you view racism as a moral failing, in which case the answer is "obviously not" or as a type of bug in a social (or social/technical) system, in which case the answer is "of course".

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#16
post #5

The accuracy or inaccuracy of stereotypes reminds me of the regulations and ethical debates regarding the use of machine learning for example for creditworthiness. The algorithms often turn out to become "racist", because from the data they have, race is a good predictor. I'm still somewhat ambivalent on that, because I'm not convinced that statistics can be racist. But people pointed out to me that the way these sta…

> I'm not convinced that statistics can be racist This really depends on whether you view racism as a moral failing, in which case the answer is "obviously not" or as a type of bug in a social (or social/technical) system, in which case the answer is "of course".

Statistics collected from a racist society, can obviously reflect the outcomes of racism.

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#17
post #9

Stereotypes do surely contain a grain of truth, but it's very important not to use any of them when judging individual people.

Why? Accurate stereotypes are simply group-level information about people. You could call a stereotype a weakly informative prior.

[deleted]

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#18
post #6

Is this surprising? I've always thought, logically, that for a stereotype to become popular and remain so, it's got to be a better quick rule of thumb assessment than an alternative stereotype, ergo there must be some small kernel of truth or statistical disposition underlying it. I remember it was an opinion that got me reamed out once by a rather terrible, but idealistic middle-school teacher.

Let me quote Daniel Kahneman in "Thinking, Fast and Slow" "The social norm against stereotyping, including the opposition to profiling, has been highly beneficial in creating a more civilized and more equal society. It is useful to remember, however, that neglecting valid stereotypes inevitably results in suboptimal judgments. Resistance to stereotyping is a laudable moral position, but the simplistic idea that the r…

I can't think of a book that has me analyzing my own thoughts for faults, and so longer after reading it.

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#19
Considering the great amount of statistical research the author has done, it's surprising that he's drawn some dreadful conclusions. He seems to be saying that in the face of incomplete/ambiguous information, people should form judgements on other people on the basis of racial/gender/physical stereotypes.

The problem with stereotypes isn't that they have no basis in reality. The problem with stereotypes is that they are just as inaccurate as they are accurate. The problem with stereotypes is that they stunt the potential of tens/hundreds of millions of people.

Do we really want to live in a world where women are denied managerial/executive jobs, because of stereotypes that they can't control their emotions?

One where African Americans are rejected from job applications, because of whatever derogatory stereotypes people hold against them?

One where Jews are routinely judged as being immoral and obsessed with money?

One where Southerners are socially shunned for being uncultured racist bigots?

One where women refuse to date engineers because they're socially incompetent boring dorks?

One that bans Gays from being teachers because they're likely to be child molesters?

If you're someone who thinks that making life-changing judgements about individuals on the basis of stereotypes is perfectly fine, the early/mid 1900s are right up your alley. Thankfully, most of us have come to recognize how damaging and morally repugnant such a system is. I would hate to be judged and discriminated against on the basis of stereotypes, and hence, I refrain from doing the same to others. Ultimately, that's the courtesy that we as a society have decided we should extend to one another.

Re: Truth in stereotypes

#20
Wow. Amazing that someone would dare publish this in today's PC world.

That said, when stereotypes are wrong - they are very wrong, right from the article:

"2. Older people are generally more __________ and less __________ than adolescents. A. Conscientious; open to new experiences B. Neurotic; agreeable"

Old people are WAY more 'conscientious' than young people.

Old people vote, they plan, they don't overspend, they're rarely loud and unruly, their finances are predictable, their homes are often more clean and orderly, they usually are responsible for caring for others - kids and grandkids.

Young people are 'virtue signallers' and ostensibly have 'big hearts' and 'thumbs up' upworthy rubbish - but old people are far more tangibly conscientious. My elderly uncles and aunts are boring and a little curmudgeon, but the spend several weeks a year in Guatemala helping to build homes for poor people. The don't post it on social media. A young person who did this once would put that on their resume forever.

You know how deals with reality: 'insurers'. They have the real data. And it's the reason if you're under 25 it's sometimes impossible to rent a car.

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