Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The end of sprawl

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 85 posts

Re: The end of sprawl

#11

Post by sotojuan »

nine_k wrote: post #9
angersock wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long commutes always suck, and having something else drive for you won't make that change. Parking as a non-issue is an argument for denser and tighter organization of cities instead of sprawl. Self-driving taxis and buses are another reason to prefer living in the city, least of all because they are cheaper in a denser area.

A long commute in a self-driving car, even more than in a comfortable train, can be a part of your work day, or even your leisure. Commute while driving is manual labor, preventing any meaningful concentration, be it watching a movie or writing code.

I wonder how long it'll take for people to be comfortable enough with self driving cars that they stop paying attention to the road.

Re: The end of sprawl

#12

Post by icebraining »

sotojuan wrote: post #11
nine_k wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long commute in a self-driving car, even more than in a comfortable train, can be a part of your work day, or even your leisure. Commute while driving is manual labor, preventing any meaningful concentration, be it watching a movie or writing code.

I wonder how long it'll take for people to be comfortable enough with self driving cars that they stop paying attention to the road.

No time at all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXls4cdEv7c

Re: The end of sprawl

#13

Post by andy_boot »

iiiggglll wrote: post #5
Houshalter wrote: post #2

I think sprawl will increase when self driving cars become a thing. Long commutes will be a lot more tolerable, parking a non issue, and the cost of owning a car could be reduced with self driving taxis or busses.

Long commutes? Once vehicles are self-driving, there will be whole swaths of the population who will simply live in their cars and not have another home. Imagine reddit's "vandwellers" times ten. Then there will be political fights over city congestion taxes and other ways of extracting money from people who do that. Interesting times...

I don't think it will happen that way. It's as easy to live in a regular van as a self driving van. Sure some people do it but not many.

I imagine that far less people will own cars and instead there will be a fleet of self driving taxis.

But I'm not sure, interesting times - like you said.

Re: The end of sprawl

#14

Post by ocb »

sotojuan wrote: post #6
Houshalter wrote: post #2

I think sprawl will increase when self driving cars become a thing. Long commutes will be a lot more tolerable, parking a non issue, and the cost of owning a car could be reduced with self driving taxis or busses.

Unless the self driving cars can make an hour commute be half an hour or less, they'll still suck. All you gain is the ability to read, eat, play games, or even sleep during the commute and no one will be comfortable doing that for a few years.

Additionally, plenty of people already commute long distances in relative comfort without having to drive themselves--it still sucks.

Re: The end of sprawl

#15

Post by nimos »

hiphipjorge wrote: post #4
Houshalter wrote: post #2

I think sprawl will increase when self driving cars become a thing. Long commutes will be a lot more tolerable, parking a non issue, and the cost of owning a car could be reduced with self driving taxis or busses.

I don't think the move from the suburbs to the city is a technology issue. There are certainly trade-offs to both of them. The reason a lot of people (especially young people) have been flocking to walkable cities has a lot more to do with self-identity and lifestyle choices than with just merely commuting time. No self-driving card will change that. Keep in mind that the opposite is also true. Self-driving cars make…

>The reason a lot of people (especially young people) have been flocking to walkable cities has a lot more to do with self-identity and lifestyle choices than with just merely commuting time. No self-driving card will change that.

For me personally having a self driving car would make suburban living much more attractive. For a lot of people having a yard/garage/space to tinker is a really big selling point.

There is a big difference between having to spend an hour driving yourself and having an hour of freeish time to read/watch netflix/do work. I think the other big factor is being able to go out for drinks. Living in the suburbs today means either insane cab bills, having to organize a dd or driving drunk.

Re: The end of sprawl

#16

Post by greggman »

I'm curious how certain things fit into city living.

Examples: Rockband the Game. You can't play that game in an apartment in the city without being a total dick to your neighbors. You can play it in a house in suburbia. Arguably the same is true for the home version of Dance Dance Revolution

Another is room scale VR which pretty seems to demand owning a large enough place to have your VR room. Maybe some people can move stuff to the side one in a while but if you have to spend a bunch of time prepping the room every time I can imagine room scale VR to ever get that popular.

Yes I know the world doesn't revolve around video games but they seem like an example of activities that are designed around sprawl. There's plenty of others, many non-game activities as well that, for lack of a better way to describe it, would compel me to still prefer a suburbian house over a city apartment.

I guess what I'm wondering is how much cultural inertia there is for one or the other

Re: The end of sprawl

#17

Post by gcr »

angersock wrote: post #3
Houshalter wrote: post #2

I think sprawl will increase when self driving cars become a thing. Long commutes will be a lot more tolerable, parking a non issue, and the cost of owning a car could be reduced with self driving taxis or busses.

Long commutes always suck, and having something else drive for you won't make that change. Parking as a non-issue is an argument for denser and tighter organization of cities instead of sprawl. Self-driving taxis and buses are another reason to prefer living in the city, least of all because they are cheaper in a denser area.

It's far easier to get work done or to read some nice books when you're not also swerving to avoid oncoming traffic.

Caltrain and Amtrak provide A+ reading experience. Even MTA or PATH are bearable. I rate them a B- if your book is one-handed.

Re: The end of sprawl

#18

Post by angersock »

nine_k wrote: post #9
angersock wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long commutes always suck, and having something else drive for you won't make that change. Parking as a non-issue is an argument for denser and tighter organization of cities instead of sprawl. Self-driving taxis and buses are another reason to prefer living in the city, least of all because they are cheaper in a denser area.

A long commute in a self-driving car, even more than in a comfortable train, can be a part of your work day, or even your leisure. Commute while driving is manual labor, preventing any meaningful concentration, be it watching a movie or writing code.

It is a sad state of affairs when labor is convinced that spending more of their time in a little box (regardless of pilot) in order to show up to work is somehow any sort of leisure at all.

Why is all this tech being used to solve the goal of self-driving cars, and yet remote work is still somehow in the realm of fantasy to most people?

Re: The end of sprawl

#20

Post by angersock »

gcr wrote: post #17
angersock wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long commutes always suck, and having something else drive for you won't make that change. Parking as a non-issue is an argument for denser and tighter organization of cities instead of sprawl. Self-driving taxis and buses are another reason to prefer living in the city, least of all because they are cheaper in a denser area.

It's far easier to get work done or to read some nice books when you're not also swerving to avoid oncoming traffic. Caltrain and Amtrak provide A+ reading experience. Even MTA or PATH are bearable. I rate them a B- if your book is one-handed.

Wouldn't you prefer just to have that extra time to enjoy the book in a cafe, in a park, or in the comfort of your own home?
Post reply on HN