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Ruby Summer of Code

rubysoc.org

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Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#11

Post by petercooper »

jeremymcanally wrote: post #10
petercooper wrote: post #9

This project has been created with good intentions and I hope people get some good out of it. I'm not going to slam this well-meant project, but being modelled on the Google Summer of Code, I have some reservations. The GSOC FAQ states some primary "goals" of the program: CREATE AND RELEASE OPEN SOURCE CODE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL Paying people to be motivated to bother to work on open source code seems odd. If someon…

The deal for me as a student was that I couldn't afford to take a whole summer off. Many students don't live at home, and so they have bills, etc. to pay. These projects take a lot of time (most say you can expect a full-time workload), so you can't expect a student to devote a ton of attention to coding while also maintaining a full-time occupation. Do you also feel the same way about Greg Brown's Ruby Mendicant pro…

Do you also feel the same way about Greg Brown's Ruby Mendicant project? I'd say even though we gave him seemingly antithetical extrinsic motivators the greater good was better served by having him work full-time on it.

The second paragraph of my comment explicitly referenced that very project :-) He had a great idea and put his neck on the line to appeal for money for it. I think of GSOC as more like a lottery grant. People know the money's there so they invent reasons to apply for it.

That said, students are not the only demographic group who can not put "full time" into open source. I'd say the majority of open source contributors are doing it in their spare time (of which they have no more than the average student).

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#12

Post by halostatue »

petercooper wrote: post #11
jeremymcanally wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deal for me as a student was that I couldn't afford to take a whole summer off. Many students don't live at home, and so they have bills, etc. to pay. These projects take a lot of time (most say you can expect a full-time workload), so you can't expect a student to devote a ton of attention to coding while also maintaining a full-time occupation. Do you also feel the same way about Greg Brown's Ruby Mendicant pro…

Do you also feel the same way about Greg Brown's Ruby Mendicant project? I'd say even though we gave him seemingly antithetical extrinsic motivators the greater good was better served by having him work full-time on it. The second paragraph of my comment explicitly referenced that very project :-) He had a great idea and put his neck on the line to appeal for money for it. I think of GSOC as more like a lottery grant…

Except that most students also don't have the wherewithal to get coding jobs during the summer, and often have to fall back on jobs not in their chosen field. I know that I would have appreciated a program like this most summers, as it would have saved me from the absolute garbage jobs I worked as a student (pizza delivery, where I was robbed twice; outcall telemarketing; others).

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#13

Post by petercooper »

halostatue wrote: post #12
petercooper wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also feel the same way about Greg Brown's Ruby Mendicant project? I'd say even though we gave him seemingly antithetical extrinsic motivators the greater good was better served by having him work full-time on it. The second paragraph of my comment explicitly referenced that very project :-) He had a great idea and put his neck on the line to appeal for money for it. I think of GSOC as more like a lottery grant…

Except that most students also don't have the wherewithal to get coding jobs during the summer, and often have to fall back on jobs not in their chosen field. I know that I would have appreciated a program like this most summers, as it would have saved me from the absolute garbage jobs I worked as a student (pizza delivery, where I was robbed twice; outcall telemarketing; others).

Except that most students also don't have the wherewithal to get coding jobs during the summer, and often have to fall back on jobs not in their chosen field.

Sure, and you italicized "also" stressing that it's not only students that have this problem. While I have reservations about financially motivating people, the program would smell nicer if it didn't arbitrarily limit itself to a demographic.

Why discriminate between a 20 year old taking marine biology and a 20 year old stuck working all year at a convenience store if they have the same desire to code on the side? Are "students" inherently "better" than other people and more deserving of programs like GSOC?

The students who really deserve our respect are those who don't sit on their butts playing WoW or watching TV for hours every day and are making time to invest in their futures by contributing to open source. There are a lot out there and they're what we need more of.

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#14

Post by jamesbritt »

spicyj wrote: post #4

Anyone have ideas as to how I might go about thinking of a project that would sound promising and be helpful to the Ruby community? I'd certainly consider myself a proficient Ruby developer, but I'm not nearly as familiar with the development of these project and what they're lacking. Where might I start?

Write docs for the standard library.

Yeah, I know: Not sexy.

Still, stuff like that would have greater benefit to the various Ruby communities than yet another Rails plugin.

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#15

Post by jamesbritt »

petercooper wrote: post #9

This project has been created with good intentions and I hope people get some good out of it. I'm not going to slam this well-meant project, but being modelled on the Google Summer of Code, I have some reservations. The GSOC FAQ states some primary "goals" of the program: CREATE AND RELEASE OPEN SOURCE CODE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL Paying people to be motivated to bother to work on open source code seems odd. If someon…

Some seriously good points there, Peter.

I also do not question the motives or integrity of the people behind this, and like you I don't care for the emphasis on students.

I don't care so much that they get paid; hell, I wish people would pay me for doing open source software. I don't think it will alter any future motivations of anyone.

But it may be entirely possible to achieve the desired results without the pay out, and archive other useful goals with that money.

Now, it's easy to harp and suggest all sorts of imagined plans, while RSOC as it stands is real. So big props for making this happen.

I think, though, that some separation of project acceptance and funding for expenses would have been useful. E.g., first have people (really should be open to anyone) pitch their project. Then, if accepted, they can argue for financial support, if they can show some documented need.

Yeah, it's more work, and maybe the sort of thing that makes the difference between a nice sounding plan and a real program. But I agree that waving the $$ up front might be the wrong incentive.

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#16

Post by jamesbritt »

petercooper wrote: post #13
halostatue wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that most students also don't have the wherewithal to get coding jobs during the summer, and often have to fall back on jobs not in their chosen field. I know that I would have appreciated a program like this most summers, as it would have saved me from the absolute garbage jobs I worked as a student (pizza delivery, where I was robbed twice; outcall telemarketing; others).

Except that most students also don't have the wherewithal to get coding jobs during the summer, and often have to fall back on jobs not in their chosen field. Sure, and you italicized "also" stressing that it's not only students that have this problem. While I have reservations about financially motivating people, the program would smell nicer if it didn't arbitrarily limit itself to a demographic. Why discriminate b…

Might be more effective to find these students and surprise them with a check. Or otherwise support them and their code.

If someone has an existing project it seems likely they will look after it over time. They've already shown the interest and initiative, so give them a boost.

If someone needs to get funded by RubyCentral to hack on something, what happens when summer ends and the money is gone? Who takes care of the code then?

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#17

Post by sid0 »

petercooper wrote: post #9

This project has been created with good intentions and I hope people get some good out of it. I'm not going to slam this well-meant project, but being modelled on the Google Summer of Code, I have some reservations. The GSOC FAQ states some primary "goals" of the program: CREATE AND RELEASE OPEN SOURCE CODE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL Paying people to be motivated to bother to work on open source code seems odd. If someon…

Given the number of people paid full-time to work on open source, I don't think the "you shouldn't need to be paid to work on open source" argument works at all.

Again, they need to be paid to learn this stuff?

Yes. You could think of it as sort of an internship. Most colleges do not cover the sort of stuff you need in the real world -- I know mine doesn't, so GSoC was invaluable for me.

(disclosure: I was a GSoC student in 2008)

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#18

Post by c3 »

My company is (well be, soon as we get off our asses and send a check) one of the sponsors of this. Why? We already do a bunch of open source; as well as the 'giving back' factor, I'm genuinely intrigued with what will be produced. Last year's outputs were a great benefit to the scene and the community. It's the kids who are on the outside and _hungry_ who are attracted to this sort of thing, and in my opinion are more capable of providing fresh genes to the pool.

Hell, 20-year-old me would've jumped at it, for the money and the fame. Actually, 20-year-old me was probably getting high in an alley, but that's a story for another day.

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#19

Post by draegtun »

halostatue wrote: post #7
blasdel wrote: post #5

Doesn't this only exist because the Rails project's Google Summer of Code application was denied this year?: http://twitter.com/rails/status/10685448004

No. I'm not inside of the decision loop, but this is because of a perception that Google's SOC administrators didn't want to work with Ruby Central over the last two years. I do not think that this perception is correct, but Ruby Central was not provided a mentorship spot last year and chose not to apply for a mentorship spot this year. This is a Ruby Central initiative.

Interesting. Google have accepted other like organisations, for eg. The Perl Foundation (http://www.perlfoundation.org/google_summer_of_code_2010), so they really should accept Ruby Central.

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#20

Post by halostatue »

spicyj wrote: post #4

Anyone have ideas as to how I might go about thinking of a project that would sound promising and be helpful to the Ruby community? I'd certainly consider myself a proficient Ruby developer, but I'm not nearly as familiar with the development of these project and what they're lacking. Where might I start?

I've applied to be a mentor, and I've suggested that some of my existing projects could use some love for Ruby 1.9. One, net-ldap, has some Ruby 1.9 support, but needs more overall features and development.

Obviously, this is not just about maintenance, but these are ideas; you can also look for things that haven't yet been addressed and propose those.

Based on my experience as a GSOC mentor, though, I think that maintenance and enhancement projects (adding new features to existing projects) are more successful in the end than greenfield projects.

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