Fare Hacking on BART • Hacker News Board

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#11

Post by srice » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:03 AM UTC

nthitz wrote: post #6

Discounts = Theft. Way to give back to the community.

One final note before I dive in: this algorithm is essentially large scale ticket swapping, which is obviously illegal and unethical. I don’t believe that it would be ethical to use this in the real world... and since Clipper cards are not cloneable, this work can’t be used to facilitate this large-scale theft.

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#12

Post by hiou » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:05 AM UTC

When you are some kid in their parents basement and figure out ways to scam money from public transit you are rebelling as a natural part of childhood.

When you are a well skilled and very well payed employee of a high profile tech company you are essentially having fun at the expense of the public servants who work(for a lot less money) to provide essential services to the public.

Maybe those reading this can take this as a lesson in tone and tact.

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#13

Post by brenns10 » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:06 AM UTC

karmicthreat wrote: post #8

Couldn't you just do the equivalent of a remote attack like you might do on a car? Could probably do this with a group of cooperating people if you really wanted to trade time for a little bit of money.

Unfortunately I don't know enough about the hardware or encryption used in the Clipper Card to say whether that sort of attack is feasible. It's interesting but ultimately I'm not looking to execute this sort of attack!

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#14

Post by namuol » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:07 AM UTC

Clever, but I hear it's pretty easy to just hop over the BART railings.

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#15

Post by lelandbatey » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:09 AM UTC

In the original manual formulation, I don't understand how the paths of these two travelers cross in Oakland. It looks like they'd only be able to take their quite short section. Unless they both stayed on their trains past the points where they where supposed to exit, but I don't see how you can do that if they scan your ticket when exiting the train.

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#16

Post by ffumarola » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:10 AM UTC

rosstex wrote: post #5

Does this mean BART doesn't check your tickets while riding?

Correct, BART is not a proof of payment system. You must scan your clipper card or transit pass to enter the gated BART platform.

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#17

Post by tibbetts » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:12 AM UTC

namuol wrote: post #14

Clever, but I hear it's pretty easy to just hop over the BART railings.

And if you look respectable you can get away with it. Life hack!

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#18

Post by brenns10 » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:13 AM UTC

lelandbatey wrote: post #15

In the original manual formulation, I don't understand how the paths of these two travelers cross in Oakland. It looks like they'd only be able to take their quite short section. Unless they both stayed on their trains past the points where they where supposed to exit, but I don't see how you can do that if they scan your ticket when exiting the train.

The BART stations use turnstiles at entrances to the stations, and that's it. No ticket checking on the actual train.

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#19

Post by zodiac » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:15 AM UTC

hiou wrote: post #12

When you are some kid in their parents basement and figure out ways to scam money from public transit you are rebelling as a natural part of childhood. When you are a well skilled and very well payed employee of a high profile tech company you are essentially having fun at the expense of the public servants who work(for a lot less money) to provide essential services to the public. Maybe those reading this can take t…

> you are essentially having fun at the expense of the public servants

The author never actually went out and fraudulently saved money by implementing his idea, so I fail to see how his actions are "at the expense of the public servants". To quote him,

> One final note before I dive in: this algorithm is essentially large scale ticket swapping, which is obviously illegal and unethical. I don’t believe that it would be ethical to use this in the real world. I value safe and smooth travel more than I value the 20-40% of my fare I could save by stealing from

Re: Fare Hacking on BART

#20

Post by glup » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:17 AM UTC

hiou wrote: post #12

When you are some kid in their parents basement and figure out ways to scam money from public transit you are rebelling as a natural part of childhood. When you are a well skilled and very well payed employee of a high profile tech company you are essentially having fun at the expense of the public servants who work(for a lot less money) to provide essential services to the public. Maybe those reading this can take t…

The technical component of the post is really interesting and indeed it's a more general problem, but I had a similar reaction to the framing: spending time figuring out how to reduce revenue on public transportation isn't the right problem. That same time 'hacking' could have been spent thinking how to genuinely improve a public service.