Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job • Hacker News Board

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#11

Post by dsplittgerber » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:21 PM UTC

From a legal point of view, this is actually really good advice. It adequately stresses the importance of making really, really sure that you are not bound by any anti-compete or IP clauses or what have you, or get released from them by your employer. To non-legal people, the advised measures may seem ridiculous; let me assure you, they are not. They are well within the minimum you need to do.

For your startup, it's not about if the courts will, after several months or even years, uphold your IP rights. It's about ever getting sued and game over.

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#12

Post by wallflower » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:21 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #5

wallflower wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lock my MacBook that I use to work on several side projects on my train commute to my work desk and plug it in to recharge it. I don't open up the lid. Is it ok to use the electricity (it's not the network)?

Buy a second battery and you'll never have to find out.

Doing that. Thanks.

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#13

Post by davidedicillo » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:29 PM UTC

I agree with everything beside the point "You can’t afford to hire three developers to add features and bugs.". You actual can, it just require a little of a financial sacrifice for you. Hiring my first employee was the best thing I ever done, especially when he can work during hours you normally can't.

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#14

Post by JarekS » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:32 PM UTC

Number one thing that should be on the list - find a co-founder!

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#15

Post by pw0ncakes » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:44 PM UTC

dsplittgerber wrote: post #11

From a legal point of view, this is actually really good advice. It adequately stresses the importance of making really, really sure that you are not bound by any anti-compete or IP clauses or what have you, or get released from them by your employer. To non-legal people, the advised measures may seem ridiculous; let me assure you, they are not. They are well within the minimum you need to do. For your startup, it's…

Stupid question: if your startup gets sued over something like this, why not have the company declare bankruptcy, dissolve it, and start a new company in the same idea with some of the same employees? (If you have investors who'd get burned in this process, tell them that they can avoid this fate if they commit sufficient resources to win the lawsuit; if they do, then this is the best possibility.)

It seems like it wouldn't be that hard to hide enough in the way of resources (relationships, ideas) to get a good start on Act 2. You'd lose your office and a few months of salary, and need to find new investors, but this doesn't seem as severe as "game over".

It seems like 85% of startup time is figuring out what works and what doesn't, so you can "kill" the code (i.e. shunt it out of view, and then use it as a reference in a comprehensive rewrite, possibly in a different language so there's no doubt as to your new code being yours) and your cost is only the 15% of the time necessary to implement the ideas that you now know will work.

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#16

Post by pw0ncakes » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:46 PM UTC

dsplittgerber wrote: post #7

[deleted] wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Sorry, but from a legal point of view, this is just really bad advice. There can be legal consequences, please consult with a lawyer about IP stuff, your employment contract and if they can later sue you for breach of contract etc. It really depends on your jurisdiction, though.

I know I shouldn't be reviving a deleted post, but I'm actually curious about how people get caught doing this (crediting an untethered co-founder for their work). It seems like, if you use resources that are unambiguously possessed by him, it would be impossible to prove that you wrote the code.

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#17

Post by gills » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:48 PM UTC

josh33 wrote: post #3

So I have a friend (it could be true) considering starting a business on the side and he agrees with all of these points. After reading this article, however, he realized that he did sign some type of agreement saying anything he does is property of the company, even if it was at home. At the time he wondered whether this was normal, but as it was the standard company contract, he signed it. How should he handle this…

These agreements are pretty normal. As others have already pointed out, suggest your friend talk to a lawyer. And don't sign any fresh agreements prior to that conversation.

Quite a few states have laws limiting the scope in both time and 'intellectual space' over which your employer may claim rights. In Washington (I'm not a lawyer, but I have recent experience with this), the law limits PIAAs to development using company resources, in the same or prospective market, and term of employment +6 months -- and burden of proof is on the employee. From what I researched at the time, this seemed to be about the middle of the road for employee-cum-entrepreneur legal protections. I'm not sure it matters in the end...if you can't afford to leave your job, can you really afford a legal battle with your behemoth ex-employer? The best way to avoid needing the legal protections is to be open, transparent, and avoid conflicts of interest.

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#18

Post by alain94040 » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:51 PM UTC

pw0ncakes wrote: post #15

dsplittgerber wrote: post #11

From a legal point of view, this is actually really good advice. It adequately stresses the importance of making really, really sure that you are not bound by any anti-compete or IP clauses or what have you, or get released from them by your employer. To non-legal people, the advised measures may seem ridiculous; let me assure you, they are not. They are well within the minimum you need to do. For your startup, it's…

Stupid question: if your startup gets sued over something like this, why not have the company declare bankruptcy, dissolve it, and start a new company in the same idea with some of the same employees? (If you have investors who'd get burned in this process, tell them that they can avoid this fate if they commit sufficient resources to win the lawsuit; if they do, then this is the best possibility.) It seems like it w…

Because the lawsuit would include you, the defendant, personally, and not just your shell company?

[quick legal advice: if a trick sounds too easy, it probably won't hold in court]

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#19

Post by alexro » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:52 PM UTC

pw0ncakes wrote: post #15

dsplittgerber wrote: post #11

From a legal point of view, this is actually really good advice. It adequately stresses the importance of making really, really sure that you are not bound by any anti-compete or IP clauses or what have you, or get released from them by your employer. To non-legal people, the advised measures may seem ridiculous; let me assure you, they are not. They are well within the minimum you need to do. For your startup, it's…

Stupid question: if your startup gets sued over something like this, why not have the company declare bankruptcy, dissolve it, and start a new company in the same idea with some of the same employees? (If you have investors who'd get burned in this process, tell them that they can avoid this fate if they commit sufficient resources to win the lawsuit; if they do, then this is the best possibility.) It seems like it w…

It's pretty much how it happens in the real world. Remember how facebook started with the connectu code base?

Re: Tips for launching a startup while holding a day job

#20

Post by dsplittgerber » Wed, Mar 24, 2010, 2:54 PM UTC

pw0ncakes wrote: post #15

dsplittgerber wrote: post #11

From a legal point of view, this is actually really good advice. It adequately stresses the importance of making really, really sure that you are not bound by any anti-compete or IP clauses or what have you, or get released from them by your employer. To non-legal people, the advised measures may seem ridiculous; let me assure you, they are not. They are well within the minimum you need to do. For your startup, it's…

Stupid question: if your startup gets sued over something like this, why not have the company declare bankruptcy, dissolve it, and start a new company in the same idea with some of the same employees? (If you have investors who'd get burned in this process, tell them that they can avoid this fate if they commit sufficient resources to win the lawsuit; if they do, then this is the best possibility.) It seems like it w…

Investors most probably won't invest in your company at all if they know you probably will have significant IP trouble. Law suits are money-dumps, which is why the small guy never seems to win. They drop out earlier or stop from the beginning because they just don't have the funds. No investor will invest in you if e.g. 50% of his funds are going to be used for law suits.

Also, if your employer has IP over your idea/process/whatever, he will sue your next company as well.