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I renounced my US citizenship

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Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#11

This is one of those things that should be repealed. I've frankly gotten tired of the punishing of normal people by dumb privacy invading laws[1], or frankly, taxing them when they are not in the US. There are easier ways of going after people and companies (looking at you Monster Cable) that play fast an lose with our tax laws. I am all for only taxing income / revenue earned in the US. 1) we can get rid of all the…

Really FATCA is one of the most excellent laws that has been passed. Prior to this, you had expats who had milked the US and then they wanted to waltz off with their proceeds. Americans gain huge benefits from the taxes paid by prior generations. The entire US system is the envy of much of the world--and how did it get that way? Americans paying their taxes. Whether or not you have kids--you must pay property taxes t…

Not quite clear how they can "waltz off with their proceeds." They would be required to pay taxes on any income they earned in the US, unless they figured out a way to actualize the income earlier (e.g. Eduardo Saverin renouncing before Facebook's IPO). Sure, by moving to the resident-based tax system used by nearly every other country in the world (China is trying to copy the US system and Eritrea requires you to pay an "expat" tax if you want a visa to return), the US expat could take their US-based K-12 education and leave and work elsewhere, but that's not quite the same. People pay for their college education. An excellent education system also serves the domestic purpose of having an informed citizenry to pass good laws, and attract the best and brightest immigrants from around the world.

I think the biggest reasons other nations don't tax overseas income is because they don't have the power to force a special exception for their expatriate citizens (e.g. Greek citizens working in Canada). The US is using its position of power to require these overseas banks to modify all of their accounting and reporting systems to continue to do business in the U.S. This has large issues of fairness and generates animosity.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#12
Charging for renunciation is the most ridiculous part. You are paying for a process that:

is expensive only since they want to investigate you as a presumed criminal or tax dodger (the movie Brazil comes to mind)

is a result of their non-compliance with international norms

is the result of the US declaring you have a status that was never requested

As an expat I consider all US citizens to be indentured servants due to this requirement to buy independence from the US and whatever it chooses to enact next. Effectively, these changes are not noticed by the US' domestics, but those who think they "can flee to Canada" when they have ethical problems with the US are now deluding themselves. "If you don't like it, then leave" may have been sarcastic BS, but at least it was a real choice that many people made in the Vietnam era, etc. If you don't like us leave us money (which we will use in the ways you probably object to)" is something else.

I will find it both funny and sad that when the people who supported the two party system are pissed by someone like Trump implementing fascist policies they will finally realize that their own willingness to destroy our basic civil rights makes it impossible for them to avoid helping a system they find morally repugnent and criminal.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#13
One can always reapply for citizenship under the same conditions as anyone else. If her parents are Americans and she was born here, she will very likely get citizenship back.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#14

This is one of those things that should be repealed. I've frankly gotten tired of the punishing of normal people by dumb privacy invading laws[1], or frankly, taxing them when they are not in the US. There are easier ways of going after people and companies (looking at you Monster Cable) that play fast an lose with our tax laws. I am all for only taxing income / revenue earned in the US. 1) we can get rid of all the…

Really FATCA is one of the most excellent laws that has been passed. Prior to this, you had expats who had milked the US and then they wanted to waltz off with their proceeds. Americans gain huge benefits from the taxes paid by prior generations. The entire US system is the envy of much of the world--and how did it get that way? Americans paying their taxes. Whether or not you have kids--you must pay property taxes t…

> If you are a US citizen and you get in trouble somewhere on earth, the US government will come to your aid.

Agree this is worth something. I would propose a substantially decreased federal tax bracket (maybe 1-5%) for expats. Sort of like how you pay a decreased vehicle tax when it's not in use.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#15

This is one of those things that should be repealed. I've frankly gotten tired of the punishing of normal people by dumb privacy invading laws[1], or frankly, taxing them when they are not in the US. There are easier ways of going after people and companies (looking at you Monster Cable) that play fast an lose with our tax laws. I am all for only taxing income / revenue earned in the US. 1) we can get rid of all the…

Really FATCA is one of the most excellent laws that has been passed. Prior to this, you had expats who had milked the US and then they wanted to waltz off with their proceeds. Americans gain huge benefits from the taxes paid by prior generations. The entire US system is the envy of much of the world--and how did it get that way? Americans paying their taxes. Whether or not you have kids--you must pay property taxes t…

I have friends who've barely been to America, but they have the passport, so they have to stupid paperwork every year. It's not reasonable.

>Americans gain huge benefits from the taxes paid by prior generations.

So do the citizens of countries with residence based systems.

>If you are a US citizen and you get in trouble somewhere on earth, the US government will come to your aid.

This is patently not true. When has the US ever intervened on behalf of an ordinary passport holder, in a way that citizens of countries with ordinary tax systems do not?

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you miss the part where the foreign bank does its own reporting, and how said banks are starting to refuse to have US Citizens as customers.

The author herself doesn't seem to be experiencing outrageous banking pain, though. She's paying no US taxes, and could almost certainly fill out her own tax forms if the thousand-Euro fee is onerous. It's completely unclear what, exactly, is so burdensome about her citizenship.

It's pro vs cons.

The cons might be small, but the pros might be even smaller.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#17

Her biggest complaint is that she has to report her overseas bank accounts. If she had done some basic research, she would have realized that this isn't specific to people residing outside the US, but any US national even within the US has to report foreign bank accounts with balances >$10k. The rest of her post reads like whining about having to fill out forms.

I think you miss the part where the foreign bank does its own reporting, and how said banks are starting to refuse to have US Citizens as customers.

On top of that, while visa holders (H1, H4 for sure) need to report their accounts at home, the bank in their home country may refuse them as clients. Been there, seen that, not pleasant.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#18

This is one of those things that should be repealed. I've frankly gotten tired of the punishing of normal people by dumb privacy invading laws[1], or frankly, taxing them when they are not in the US. There are easier ways of going after people and companies (looking at you Monster Cable) that play fast an lose with our tax laws. I am all for only taxing income / revenue earned in the US. 1) we can get rid of all the…

Really FATCA is one of the most excellent laws that has been passed. Prior to this, you had expats who had milked the US and then they wanted to waltz off with their proceeds. Americans gain huge benefits from the taxes paid by prior generations. The entire US system is the envy of much of the world--and how did it get that way? Americans paying their taxes. Whether or not you have kids--you must pay property taxes t…

As someone who lives outside of the US: your political and economic system is at best illogical, and at worst incomprehensibly clueless.

Your government spends billions of dollars on wildly unsuccessful defense projects while at the same time arguing the there's no way to deal with poverty, access to education, homelessness, etc. By cutting back on defence spending, the US could still remain the most powerful military nation in the world and guarantee that every citizen gets a quality education and spends their lives healthy and well maintained. Instead, you insist on going trillions of dollars in debt and then complaining that the poor aren't paying their fair share while the people with so much wealth that it's literally impossible to comprehend use every loophole in the book to avoid paying anything at all. Warren Buffet himself has commented on how he pays less tax than his secretary does.

Meanwhile, your entire government is bought and run by corporations and lobby groups; because money runs the campaigns and the person with the most money wins, elected officials spend a huge portion of their time "in office" not serving their country, their electorate, or even their benefactors, in favour of travelling around, having meetings and dinners and fundraisers, so that they can ensure they get elected again. If you court the right interests then not only will they help pay for you to get re-elected over and over, when you're done with public life they'll offer you a consultancy position where you can make further millions for years convincing your old friends who are still in office to vote the way you want them to because you're old friends.

The entire US system, is, to much of the rest of the world, a farce made manifest. Many of us fail to understand how your populace even got into such ridiculous circumstances, let alone continues to tolerate them year after year.

To claim that someone overseas should pay thousands of euros to tell the US government that they owe no tax while millionaires are using fully legal loopholes that their rich congressional friends refuse to close to shirk millions of dollars of taxes is patently ridiculous.

Fix your system to stop exploiting the poor and giving rights, privileges, and power to the rich elite and you can claim that your system is the envy of the world.

And as for 'how it got that way'? Years and years of economic growth on the backs of slaves imported from Africa certainly helped. Being able to bootstrap your economy by cutting out the business owner's largest expense is certainly an effective way of getting ahead.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#19

This is one of those things that should be repealed. I've frankly gotten tired of the punishing of normal people by dumb privacy invading laws[1], or frankly, taxing them when they are not in the US. There are easier ways of going after people and companies (looking at you Monster Cable) that play fast an lose with our tax laws. I am all for only taxing income / revenue earned in the US. 1) we can get rid of all the…

Really FATCA is one of the most excellent laws that has been passed. Prior to this, you had expats who had milked the US and then they wanted to waltz off with their proceeds. Americans gain huge benefits from the taxes paid by prior generations. The entire US system is the envy of much of the world--and how did it get that way? Americans paying their taxes. Whether or not you have kids--you must pay property taxes t…

> If you were born in the US, then you benefitted. If you are a US citizen and you get in trouble somewhere on earth, the US government will come to your aid.

I don't know why Americans believe this fairy tale. It's simply not true. Case in point: Yemen, last year. American citizens were abandoned by State[1], only to be rescued by India[2]. What's the point of the taxes, again?

[1] http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/08...

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really FATCA is one of the most excellent laws that has been passed. Prior to this, you had expats who had milked the US and then they wanted to waltz off with their proceeds. Americans gain huge benefits from the taxes paid by prior generations. The entire US system is the envy of much of the world--and how did it get that way? Americans paying their taxes. Whether or not you have kids--you must pay property taxes t…

> If you are a US citizen and you get in trouble somewhere on earth, the US government will come to your aid. Agree this is worth something. I would propose a substantially decreased federal tax bracket (maybe 1-5%) for expats. Sort of like how you pay a decreased vehicle tax when it's not in use.

This would be worth something ... if it was true. See this, for example: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24...
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