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Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

arstechnica.com

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Re: Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

#11

Post by ocdtrekkie »

rayiner wrote: post #8
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also both line politicians' pockets to ensure laws get passed in their favor? (Google has donated to over half of Congress according to OpenSecrets.org, in actual cash donated I think Comcast might still be on top, but the gap's closing fast.) I'd also comment on their mutually horrible customer service, but at least Comcast HAS people you can call, even if they're lousy.

> (Google has donated to over half of Congress according to OpenSecrets.org, in actual cash donated I think Comcast might still be on top, but the gap's closing fast.) Corporations can't donate to political campaigns. What OpenSecrets.org misleadingly advertises as "corporate" donations to political campaigns are employee donations to campaigns.[1] Google has 57,000 employees. Unsurprisingly, many of them exercise th…

It's not misleading. Many of the donations are from top ranking Googlers like Eric Schmidt who directly interact with these politicians in a business sense. Many of these donors have stock-based compensation with Google.

Unsurprisingly, almost all pro-Google legislation is sponsored by the same Congresspeople who have received the largest donations from Googlers.

So OpenSecrets' format is specifically designed to reveal corruption that would not be obvious with mere donor names alone.

Re: Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

#12

Post by twoodfin »

rayiner wrote: post #8
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also both line politicians' pockets to ensure laws get passed in their favor? (Google has donated to over half of Congress according to OpenSecrets.org, in actual cash donated I think Comcast might still be on top, but the gap's closing fast.) I'd also comment on their mutually horrible customer service, but at least Comcast HAS people you can call, even if they're lousy.

> (Google has donated to over half of Congress according to OpenSecrets.org, in actual cash donated I think Comcast might still be on top, but the gap's closing fast.) Corporations can't donate to political campaigns. What OpenSecrets.org misleadingly advertises as "corporate" donations to political campaigns are employee donations to campaigns.[1] Google has 57,000 employees. Unsurprisingly, many of them exercise th…

To clarify this excellent comment: Corporations can donate to political campaigns and the organizations running them. What they can't do is donate directly to candidates running for office.

Re: Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

#13

Post by ocdtrekkie »

mikeash wrote: post #10
zymhan wrote: post #4

What scenario is Google worried about where they will face a massive, costly class action lawsuit over their internet service?

Maybe there are no specific scenarios, and it's just to be safe. If you were Google, why wouldn't you add such a clause? It's not like it's going to scare customers away.

Shouldn't it scare away customers that a company will only do business with them if they cannot be held in court for misdeeds regarding that business? I sadly understand that consumers don't read the fine print. But really, this clause should be treated as a dealbreaker.

Re: Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

#14

Post by fgonzag »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #13
mikeash wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there are no specific scenarios, and it's just to be safe. If you were Google, why wouldn't you add such a clause? It's not like it's going to scare customers away.

Shouldn't it scare away customers that a company will only do business with them if they cannot be held in court for misdeeds regarding that business? I sadly understand that consumers don't read the fine print. But really, this clause should be treated as a dealbreaker.

It won't because usually your options are 50 Mbit line (maybe 100 if you're really lucky) or a 1Gb line for the same price.

I'd happily take the arbitration clause for 10x and probably 20x the speedup.

Re: Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

#15

Post by heroprotagonist »

fgonzag wrote: post #14
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't it scare away customers that a company will only do business with them if they cannot be held in court for misdeeds regarding that business? I sadly understand that consumers don't read the fine print. But really, this clause should be treated as a dealbreaker.

It won't because usually your options are 50 Mbit line (maybe 100 if you're really lucky) or a 1Gb line for the same price. I'd happily take the arbitration clause for 10x and probably 20x the speedup.

Beyond that, your other options will also usually include arbitration clauses. If it's a deal-breaker for choosing Google, it'll be a deal-breaker for choosing anyone else.

Re: Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

#16

Post by [deleted] »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #11
rayiner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Google has donated to over half of Congress according to OpenSecrets.org, in actual cash donated I think Comcast might still be on top, but the gap's closing fast.) Corporations can't donate to political campaigns. What OpenSecrets.org misleadingly advertises as "corporate" donations to political campaigns are employee donations to campaigns.[1] Google has 57,000 employees. Unsurprisingly, many of them exercise th…

It's not misleading. Many of the donations are from top ranking Googlers like Eric Schmidt who directly interact with these politicians in a business sense. Many of these donors have stock-based compensation with Google. Unsurprisingly, almost all pro-Google legislation is sponsored by the same Congresspeople who have received the largest donations from Googlers. So OpenSecrets' format is specifically designed to rev…

[deleted]

Re: Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

#17

Post by rayiner »

twoodfin wrote: post #12
rayiner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Google has donated to over half of Congress according to OpenSecrets.org, in actual cash donated I think Comcast might still be on top, but the gap's closing fast.) Corporations can't donate to political campaigns. What OpenSecrets.org misleadingly advertises as "corporate" donations to political campaigns are employee donations to campaigns.[1] Google has 57,000 employees. Unsurprisingly, many of them exercise th…

To clarify this excellent comment: Corporations can donate to political campaigns and the organizations running them. What they can't do is donate directly to candidates running for office.

Corporations cannot donate to campaigns either. What they can do is donate to Super PACs that make independent expenditures to support particular candidates.

Re: Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

#18

Post by DannyBee »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #11
rayiner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Google has donated to over half of Congress according to OpenSecrets.org, in actual cash donated I think Comcast might still be on top, but the gap's closing fast.) Corporations can't donate to political campaigns. What OpenSecrets.org misleadingly advertises as "corporate" donations to political campaigns are employee donations to campaigns.[1] Google has 57,000 employees. Unsurprisingly, many of them exercise th…

It's not misleading. Many of the donations are from top ranking Googlers like Eric Schmidt who directly interact with these politicians in a business sense. Many of these donors have stock-based compensation with Google. Unsurprisingly, almost all pro-Google legislation is sponsored by the same Congresspeople who have received the largest donations from Googlers. So OpenSecrets' format is specifically designed to rev…

"It's not misleading. " Of course it is. People are not the companies they work for. Period.

" Many of the donations are from top ranking Googlers like Eric Schmidt who directly interact with these politicians in a business sense."

"many".

Opensecrets lists 503 unique people identified as googlers donating. I don't believe you have any reasonable argument that there are 503 top ranking googlers who interact directly with these politicians in a business sense. I think you can argue maybe 1-2% of them are.

So 98% of them somehow don't fall into what you consider "many of the donations". That doesn't seem like many to me.

"Unsurprisingly, almost all pro-Google legislation is sponsored by the same Congresspeople who have received the largest donations from Googlers."

What is "pro-google"? Who are "the same congresspeople"?

Can you give specific examples of pro-google legislation and congresspeople who have repeatedly passed them, where there largest donations were from google?

I see a tremendous amount of handwaving in your comment, but pretty much no real data.

Re: Like Comcast, Google Fiber now forces customers into arbitration

#20

Post by spriggan3 »

It's difficult to understand how such clause is even legal to begin with. It basically sets up a "private" justice system for non criminal cases. That's insane. I get it, there are difference sort of tribunals. But it shouldn't be up to the corporations to decide where justice is supposed to be served.
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