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The way Upwork treats loyal freelancers

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Re: The way Upwork treats loyal freelancers

#11

Post by MichaelBurge »

waterphone wrote: post #8
bravura wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is against their TOS. Upwork encourages you to do all messaging on the platform, and scans your messages for hints that you are trying to move work off the platform. If so, they give you temporary bans or other punishments. I'm not saying that no one does this, but Upwork are vigilant about it.

That sounds like a terrible environment to lock yourself into, but it also seems pretty ineffective. If I was temporarily banned for hinting that I was going to leave the Upwork platform, that would be a trigger to leave it even more quickly.

Leaving the Upwork platform permanently isn't what bothers them[1]; they're worried more about the while loop where you:

* Obtain a lead on Upwork

* Request moving off of Upwork to avoid fees

* Do subsequent payments through Paypal or similar.

In this case, you aren't moving off the platform entirely and banning you will hurt your lead generation.

[1] At least in the context of this specific case.

Re: The way Upwork treats loyal freelancers

#12

Post by phonon »

bravura wrote: post #5
dmoy wrote: post #4

I don't know what your terms/conditions are with upwork, but if you've been with the same place 14 months, couldn't you cut out the middle man there? Would there be anything stopping you from going back if you need to find a new gig?

That is against their TOS. Upwork encourages you to do all messaging on the platform, and scans your messages for hints that you are trying to move work off the platform. If so, they give you temporary bans or other punishments. I'm not saying that no one does this, but Upwork are vigilant about it.

The non-circumvention clause lapses after 24 months (from the date you first "identify" that person through the site.) So, kinda bad but not terrible https://www.upwork.com/legal/ (There is a buy-out clause, but it's pretty expensive.)

Re: The way Upwork treats loyal freelancers

#13

Post by HelloMcFly »

bravura wrote: post #5
dmoy wrote: post #4

I don't know what your terms/conditions are with upwork, but if you've been with the same place 14 months, couldn't you cut out the middle man there? Would there be anything stopping you from going back if you need to find a new gig?

That is against their TOS. Upwork encourages you to do all messaging on the platform, and scans your messages for hints that you are trying to move work off the platform. If so, they give you temporary bans or other punishments. I'm not saying that no one does this, but Upwork are vigilant about it.

How do they prevent/monitor phone calls? It almost seems like the nature of the beast for this type of organization: you help establish the relationship and take a commission. If they want to take the relationship "to the next level" then you just have to accept that.

Of course, it's not that easy, especially if you feel you're being cut out of money you are "owed."

Re: The way Upwork treats loyal freelancers

#16

Post by tzaman »

mundo wrote: post #7
bravura wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is against their TOS. Upwork encourages you to do all messaging on the platform, and scans your messages for hints that you are trying to move work off the platform. If so, they give you temporary bans or other punishments. I'm not saying that no one does this, but Upwork are vigilant about it.

That seems akin to a dating site that bans users for discussing marriage...

That's because married couples would blame the dating site when getting divorced :)

Re: The way Upwork treats loyal freelancers

#17

Post by CPLX »

This is emblematic of what I suspect will be a serious problem going forward for a lot of companies as "tech startups" more and more become just "companies" that millions and millions of people are supposed to use and depend and base their lives and livelihoods on.

There's a cultural thing in tech companies that is borne somewhat from the wild west feeling of the early internet, where it's considered OK to do things like throw people off a platform, take their existing earnings or funds, or make it so they can't message people or similar, without even telling them, or without any ability to communicate or seek redress, all in the name of "Trust & Safety"

This is a philosophy that was fine when these companies were small and could be easily overwhelmed by fraud, but it doesn't scale and leads to truly epic amounts of bad blood with customers.

We have things like consumer credit laws, and common carrier rules, and the Montreal Convention, and state licensing and regulation, because over the years the public decided that it wasn't OK to just leave things like this up to companies. Maybe not soon, but eventually there is going to have to be a reckoning for tech companies that ignore the reality that they eventually would be wise to have rules, transparency, and accountability before it is forced upon them.

Re: The way Upwork treats loyal freelancers

#19

Post by kdamken »

Retr0spectrum wrote: post #18

I've just got started on Upwork recently. My experience so far has been positive, but that doesn't mean much considering how little I've used it. What are my other options for getting into freelancing?

What do you do? If you have front end skills, find businesses in your area that don't have a website or have a crappy one. Reach out with your portfolio and examples of other businesses you've helped and either make them a site, or offer to get their google and yelp info in order so they can manage that better, upload their hours, etc.

You don't need to rely solely on sites like this to find work :)

Re: The way Upwork treats loyal freelancers

#20

Post by brobinson »

dmoy wrote: post #4

I don't know what your terms/conditions are with upwork, but if you've been with the same place 14 months, couldn't you cut out the middle man there? Would there be anything stopping you from going back if you need to find a new gig?

There is a specific callout about "disintermediation" in their onboarding process. They frame it as being dangerous for you.
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