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Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

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Re: Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

#11
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were some games with Gu Li? Could you point me to them? I can't seem to find them.

Gu Li and Ke Jie played each other (in a jubango -- a ten game series -- in 2014: an excellent series of games!). AlphaGo did not play Gu Li unfortunately.

The jubango was between Gu Li and Lee Sedol. Not Gu Li and Ke Jie.

Re: Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

#12

Will he learn from the matches against Lee Sedol? Will Alpha Go become even more advanced (ie, have more hardware added)?

I assume Alpha Go has been trained using a large number of games played by Go masters so the games it played itself probably won't provide much more information, unless it can learn its own weaknesses from those games.

Re: Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

#13
post #4

Will he learn from the matches against Lee Sedol? Will Alpha Go become even more advanced (ie, have more hardware added)?

I'm guessing that AlphaGo has been doing more learning. Studying Sedol's games is probably a good platform but certainly not a plan to win - Jie needs to go in expecting the unexpected. Just look at how different the games were between Hui and Sedol. To answer your question more directly: giving AlphaGo more hardware would only give it more CPU cycles to work with (faster decisions, not necessarily good ones). The tr…

Doesn't faster hardware allow it to navigate more of the search tree, in effect giving it more time to find better decisions?

Re: Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

#14
post #13
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that AlphaGo has been doing more learning. Studying Sedol's games is probably a good platform but certainly not a plan to win - Jie needs to go in expecting the unexpected. Just look at how different the games were between Hui and Sedol. To answer your question more directly: giving AlphaGo more hardware would only give it more CPU cycles to work with (faster decisions, not necessarily good ones). The tr…

Doesn't faster hardware allow it to navigate more of the search tree, in effect giving it more time to find better decisions?

Yes, the online hardware used during the game, vs. the offline hardware used for training the neural network, is mainly there to run a ton of monte carlo tree search (MCTS) iterations. MCTS tends to produce better estimates as you throw more compute power at it. In perfect-information, deterministic games, it theoretically converges on optimal play given infinite compute power, although in games with very large state spaces in practice that guarantee isn't too useful on its own, and the heuristic guidance provided by the NN is crucial.

Re: Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

#15
post #12

Will he learn from the matches against Lee Sedol? Will Alpha Go become even more advanced (ie, have more hardware added)?

I assume Alpha Go has been trained using a large number of games played by Go masters so the games it played itself probably won't provide much more information, unless it can learn its own weaknesses from those games.

They said it was trained with the games of 5 dan and stronger players from KGS, plus self playing. No professional games and no training with the games of a specific player, because there so few of them (60-70 per year).

Re: Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

#16
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume Alpha Go has been trained using a large number of games played by Go masters so the games it played itself probably won't provide much more information, unless it can learn its own weaknesses from those games.

They said it was trained with the games of 5 dan and stronger players from KGS, plus self playing. No professional games and no training with the games of a specific player, because there so few of them (60-70 per year).

Although this is not the main reason, there is also a matter of intellectual property of Go game records. The official position of Korea Baduk Association is that Go game records are copyrightable.

On the other hand, it is not recognized as such in Korea, let alone in other countries. There has been multiple attempts to change the Korean copyright law to explicitly list Go game records as an example of work that can be copyrighted. All such attempts failed so far.

Re: Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

#17
post #16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said it was trained with the games of 5 dan and stronger players from KGS, plus self playing. No professional games and no training with the games of a specific player, because there so few of them (60-70 per year).

Although this is not the main reason, there is also a matter of intellectual property of Go game records. The official position of Korea Baduk Association is that Go game records are copyrightable. On the other hand, it is not recognized as such in Korea, let alone in other countries. There has been multiple attempts to change the Korean copyright law to explicitly list Go game records as an example of work that can…

The official position of Korea Baduk Association is that Go game records are copyrightable.

Who owns the copyright?

Re: Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

#19
post #13
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that AlphaGo has been doing more learning. Studying Sedol's games is probably a good platform but certainly not a plan to win - Jie needs to go in expecting the unexpected. Just look at how different the games were between Hui and Sedol. To answer your question more directly: giving AlphaGo more hardware would only give it more CPU cycles to work with (faster decisions, not necessarily good ones). The tr…

Doesn't faster hardware allow it to navigate more of the search tree, in effect giving it more time to find better decisions?

In the paper they state that they tried giving it more power than the version that played Sedol, but found that it had rapidly decreasing marginal value, so they decided on a level that was pretty close to optimal.

Re: Ke Jie will likely play AlphaGo before year's end

#20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although this is not the main reason, there is also a matter of intellectual property of Go game records. The official position of Korea Baduk Association is that Go game records are copyrightable. On the other hand, it is not recognized as such in Korea, let alone in other countries. There has been multiple attempts to change the Korean copyright law to explicitly list Go game records as an example of work that can…

The official position of Korea Baduk Association is that Go game records are copyrightable. Who owns the copyright?

Presumably, it'd be a joint copyright. When two people write a book together, both hold the copyright.
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