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If You’re Building a Startup You Need to Move to Phoenix (Not Silicon Valley)

m.tuftandneedle.com

11–20 of 33 posts

Re: If You’re Building a Startup You Need to Move to Phoenix (Not Silicon Valley)

#11
post #8
post #7

Not a bad idea but probably a tough sell in June. Forecast high temperature of 115F this week. Which translates to 125F+ at ground level in the parking lot where you have to walk to your car.

"But it's a dry heat"

Having worked in 125F with near-zero humidity (Kuwait) and 90F with 100% humidity (Alabama), I'll take the dry heat every time.

Re: If You’re Building a Startup You Need to Move to Phoenix (Not Silicon Valley)

#13
It might make sense if you are bootstrapping and Phoenix is a place you want to live. (It is too hot, too conservative, and too suburban for my taste)

But if you try to raise money, you suffer from a valuation penalty for not being in Silicon Valley - just from the fact that there will be fewer interested investors. That valuation penalty is probably going to far exceed the cost savings of being outside Silicon Valley.

Re: If You’re Building a Startup You Need to Move to Phoenix (Not Silicon Valley)

#14
As a dev here in Phx with several friends in different startups who are also programmers, I can confirm a lot of what the article says.

Next time you think of spinning up a company in silicon valley - try to remember there is likely someone else trying to build the exact same thing here and doing it with 2x the number of employees(because labor costs are less here) and an extra year worth of capitol because space is cheap.

Yes heat is tricky, but compared to the pain of failure or losing out to a better functioning competitor it seems a small price to pay.

Re: If You’re Building a Startup You Need to Move to Phoenix (Not Silicon Valley)

#15

It might make sense if you are bootstrapping and Phoenix is a place you want to live. (It is too hot, too conservative, and too suburban for my taste) But if you try to raise money, you suffer from a valuation penalty for not being in Silicon Valley - just from the fact that there will be fewer interested investors. That valuation penalty is probably going to far exceed the cost savings of being outside Silicon Valle…

Yes... if only there was a technology that let us communicate with investors in other places... or better yet some sort of modern flying machine that could take us there!!

Re: If You’re Building a Startup You Need to Move to Phoenix (Not Silicon Valley)

#16
The author spends quite a bit of time comparing the expenses, but never really mentions the pay. It's a better deal if the pay stays the same. This kind of comparison happens a lot, but I personally think it's a little faulty.

To demonstrate, let's do some math. If I make 60K after taxes in Phoenix and spend 18K/year on rent (1.5K * 12), and let's say another 12K on food and gas and miscellaneous expenses, then I have spent 30K and have 30K remaining. That's 50% of my income goes to expenses.

If I live in San Francisco and make 120K/year after taxes, and I spend 50% of my income on rent and food like I did in Phoenix, then I've both made 2x the Phoenix salary and I've spent 2x the Phoenix expenses. But what's left? Instead of 30K in savings, I have 60K in savings.

By living in SF, I've saved an additional 30K over what I would have saved in Phoenix. Now, I'm using nice round numbers here to make a point, but even if SF expenses were 2.5 or even 3x Phoenix expenses, I'd still come out ahead.

Sure, the psychological impact of paying less feels good, but unless you can keep your pay closer to SF pay while living in Phoenix, you're probably not going to come out ahead financially.

My two cents.

Re: If You’re Building a Startup You Need to Move to Phoenix (Not Silicon Valley)

#17
post #2

Interesting. I've always seen Phoenix as a place where you spend most of your life indoors due to the heat. And it always has given me a "suburb" vibe when I've flown over it. Haven't lived there though.

Oh man... it's super suburban. Of course, if you've got a family and don't want neighbors breathing down on you from every direction, a proper suburban home here is totally affordable.

That said, if you like to play outside, it's a paradise. We've got thousands of acres of public land within reach, easily accessible and free to all.

Re: If You’re Building a Startup You Need to Move to Phoenix (Not Silicon Valley)

#19
post #2

Interesting. I've always seen Phoenix as a place where you spend most of your life indoors due to the heat. And it always has given me a "suburb" vibe when I've flown over it. Haven't lived there though.

Phoenix is one of the most suburban major cities in the world. I cannot think of a better example of a decaying suburban shithole.

I am from Phoenix, BTW.

Re: If You’re Building a Startup You Need to Move to Phoenix (Not Silicon Valley)

#20
If you are okay with not hiring the best, then sure, move your startup to Phoenix.

Startups go to Silicon Valley and NYC because that's where the talent is. Talent goes there because that's where the startups are. Even if everything about Phoenix is objectively better, how are you going to overcome this trend?

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