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Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

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Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#11

Post by te_chris »

jessriedel wrote: post #8
te_chris wrote: post #5

Good. The way multinationals are allowed to take the resources of the various nation states they operate in while contributing nothing themselves, yet still claiming to be 'people' and demanding all sorts of rights, is beyond the joke. Before anyone says it, yes I'm aware they pay GST/VAT/PAYE etc, but if I have to pay company tax, why don't they?

This is an excellent attitude to take if you want Google to physically exit France.

This argument makes no sense. They obviously need a presence in the world's 6th largest economy, otherwise why else would they have said presence.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#12

Post by cscurmudgeon »

logicchains wrote: post #7
te_chris wrote: post #5

Good. The way multinationals are allowed to take the resources of the various nation states they operate in while contributing nothing themselves, yet still claiming to be 'people' and demanding all sorts of rights, is beyond the joke. Before anyone says it, yes I'm aware they pay GST/VAT/PAYE etc, but if I have to pay company tax, why don't they?

>while contributing nothing themselves They contribute a service, in this case a search engine that's miles ahead of its closest competitor, Bing. They don't "take" anything, they offer something that you're free not to use. Unlike nation states, which are happy to take whatever they want (claiming they're owed it for providing you things you may never have asked for, which are paid for by other people potentially ag…

Except Google was heavily dependent on funding from various branches of the USG in its early stages. Search for it.

> case a search engine that's miles ahead of its closest competitor, Bing

Thats debatable. Any blind studies?

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#13

Post by derekp7 »

hrnnnnnn wrote: post #6
ersii wrote: post #4

"Several have been accused of using legal methods to minimise their tax bills." Since when is it illegal to follow the law? Sure, we all have different opinions on the legal gray areas and of whether certain or all laws are legitimate and to what extent - but come on, that quote is just ridiculous.

It's not the most eloquent phrasing. I think what they're trying to say is "People find legalistic tax-dodging unethical, and they're sick of rich people and big companies getting away with it."

In other words, they found a bug in the way the law is written, and they are exploiting that flaw to their benefit.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#14

Post by te_chris »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #10
te_chris wrote: post #5

Good. The way multinationals are allowed to take the resources of the various nation states they operate in while contributing nothing themselves, yet still claiming to be 'people' and demanding all sorts of rights, is beyond the joke. Before anyone says it, yes I'm aware they pay GST/VAT/PAYE etc, but if I have to pay company tax, why don't they?

" multinationals are allowed to take the resources of the various nation states they operate in while contributing nothing themselves". I agree with the sentiment that they should receive equal treatment than local/smaller companies, but saying that they contribute "nothing" is unfair and ingenuous, they do in terms of creation of local jobs and the direct and indirect taxes they pay for them.

That's the whole reason they're being raided though. They're not paying enough "direct" taxes!

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#15

Post by lloyd-christmas »

hrnnnnnn wrote: post #6
ersii wrote: post #4

"Several have been accused of using legal methods to minimise their tax bills." Since when is it illegal to follow the law? Sure, we all have different opinions on the legal gray areas and of whether certain or all laws are legitimate and to what extent - but come on, that quote is just ridiculous.

It's not the most eloquent phrasing. I think what they're trying to say is "People find legalistic tax-dodging unethical, and they're sick of rich people and big companies getting away with it."

Solution: Get rid of tax law as one of the major sub-industries of the legal profession. When I no longer need a lawyer to submit my taxes, I'll start caring about corporate tax loopholes.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#16

Post by onli »

ersii wrote: post #4

"Several have been accused of using legal methods to minimise their tax bills." Since when is it illegal to follow the law? Sure, we all have different opinions on the legal gray areas and of whether certain or all laws are legitimate and to what extent - but come on, that quote is just ridiculous.

In Louis Begleys Matters of Honour, there is a similar passage. A big international company in France uses loopholes to not pay taxes, until France strikes back with devastating outcome for the company (don't worry, knowing that spoils nothing important). I think the point is that countries make the law, and companies thinking they can use use the law to act against the interest of countries won't end well. There is precedent.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#17

Post by charlesdm »

hrnnnnnn wrote: post #6
ersii wrote: post #4

"Several have been accused of using legal methods to minimise their tax bills." Since when is it illegal to follow the law? Sure, we all have different opinions on the legal gray areas and of whether certain or all laws are legitimate and to what extent - but come on, that quote is just ridiculous.

It's not the most eloquent phrasing. I think what they're trying to say is "People find legalistic tax-dodging unethical, and they're sick of rich people and big companies getting away with it."

So let's raid the place. Excellent idea. Which judge is going to issue a judgement against Google if they're not breaking any tax laws? I would expect any issues to pop up quite fast during a routine audit of their accounts.

This almost feels like blackmail. Pay up, or we'll keep harassing you, raiding your offices etc.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#18

Post by realusername »

ersii wrote: post #4

"Several have been accused of using legal methods to minimise their tax bills." Since when is it illegal to follow the law? Sure, we all have different opinions on the legal gray areas and of whether certain or all laws are legitimate and to what extent - but come on, that quote is just ridiculous.

All the laws are judged on intent, not on the exact wording, why would finance laws be any different than the other ones ?

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#19

Post by ciaranm »

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #15
hrnnnnnn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the most eloquent phrasing. I think what they're trying to say is "People find legalistic tax-dodging unethical, and they're sick of rich people and big companies getting away with it."

Solution: Get rid of tax law as one of the major sub-industries of the legal profession. When I no longer need a lawyer to submit my taxes, I'll start caring about corporate tax loopholes.

Most people in Europe don't need Lawyers to submit their taxes.

In fact, until I started my own company (UK) - I didn't 'submit' taxes. It was calculated (and taken) automatically based on my salary and otherwise declared income.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#20

Post by bambax »

ersii wrote: post #4

"Several have been accused of using legal methods to minimise their tax bills." Since when is it illegal to follow the law? Sure, we all have different opinions on the legal gray areas and of whether certain or all laws are legitimate and to what extent - but come on, that quote is just ridiculous.

Don't know about American law, but in French the notion exists and is called "abus de droit"; just because you can do something "in general", you can't do it with the specific purpose of circumventing another legal obligation.

For example, as an Irish company, you can open a subsidiary in France to do business in France. That's a right.

But if you're doing business in France essentially, you can't make the French company a subsidiary of an Irish one that doesn't have any other activity, in the sole purpose of evading French taxes. That would be abusing the right (of opening subsidiaries). It may conform to the letter of the law but not to its spirit, and can be punished.

Of course, this is all a very grey area and up to the judge to evaluate (and my explanation perhaps lacks clarity); but it's real nonetheless!

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