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Destruction of large numbers of jobs by robots unlikely, says new OECD Study

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Re: Destruction of large numbers of jobs by robots unlikely, says new OECD Study

#11

This piece is utter trash founded on baseless assumptions. >Arntz, et al. argue that the estimated share of “jobs at risk” must not be equated with actual or expected employment losses from technological advances for three reasons. So in other words, the title is false. Actual employment loss is what is at issue here. >The utilisation of new technologies is a slow process, due to economic, legal and societal hurdles,…

It's a tedious and unproductive article.

There's real, interesting stuff to be said about automation and substitution effects - it is not to be found here. Yet another piece parroting the claim that displaced workers find new jobs adds nothing to the conversation. Look up any of the Tech Review debates, or if you're truly interested check out the pieces the OECD incorrectly claims to debunk.

'Asinine' is exactly the word, although I might choose "assuming the consequent" if I'm allowed to use a phrase. When the entire debate is over whether this time is different, whether new jobs will actually become available, it's impressively dull-witted to dismiss the argument by assuming the desired result.

Re: Destruction of large numbers of jobs by robots unlikely, says new OECD Study

#13
post #9

Actual OECD study: [1] The study says that, for the US, 9% of people are at "high risk" of automated out of a job. (That probably means "replaceable right now".) But 38% of people are potentially replaceable. There's an assumption in the OECD report that the entire job of a human must be replaced. But that's not how automation works. We're seeing this in the more advanced law firms. What used to take a senior attorne…

One for one replacement is a truly strange standard to hold to. After all, even trucking automation will not be a 100% loss - if nothing else, we'll see a rise in full-service highway gas stations to fuel driverless trucks.

On the other hand, even 10% replacement of an industry (9 workers doing what 10 workers do now) is a big deal, and there are a lot of careers (legal, HR, document handling) that should expect to see values like 75% replacement. I can't think why someone would (in good faith) treat a one-to-one statistic as the whole of the answer here.

Re: Destruction of large numbers of jobs by robots unlikely, says new OECD Study

#15
Sigh. It doesn't matter. People have this bizarre conception of the economy as an exact lock-fit between jobs and work that needs doing, and they have a hard time imagining changes to that fit, even though throughout human history there has been constant change.

In truth there is a nearly infinite amount of work that needs doing. We just get by with most of the work not being done. Just go back in time and think about all the work that wasn't being done before various jobs existed. There used to be a time before the video games industry existed, there was a time before the movie industry existed, there was a time before people could support themselves as authors or journalists or watch-makers.

Are we going to live in some sort of world where there's a pool of unused labor and people just sit around thinking "whelp, it's a shame there's literally nothing, no possible thing, for them to do, oh well"? Of course not, that's a fantasy that's based on a complete misperception of economics. No matter how much we automate there will always be work for people to do. The more important question is how equitably they'll be compensated for that work and whether or not our education system is adequate for the world as it exists.

Re: Destruction of large numbers of jobs by robots unlikely, says new OECD Study

#16
post #9

Actual OECD study: [1] The study says that, for the US, 9% of people are at "high risk" of automated out of a job. (That probably means "replaceable right now".) But 38% of people are potentially replaceable. There's an assumption in the OECD report that the entire job of a human must be replaced. But that's not how automation works. We're seeing this in the more advanced law firms. What used to take a senior attorne…

One for one replacement is a truly strange standard to hold to. After all, even trucking automation will not be a 100% loss - if nothing else, we'll see a rise in full-service highway gas stations to fuel driverless trucks. On the other hand, even 10% replacement of an industry (9 workers doing what 10 workers do now) is a big deal, and there are a lot of careers (legal, HR, document handling) that should expect to s…

If driverless trucking takes off, why would the gas station need to be full service (staffed with humans)?

Compared to building an autonomous truck, autonomous refueling seems like the easy part.

Re: Destruction of large numbers of jobs by robots unlikely, says new OECD Study

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One for one replacement is a truly strange standard to hold to. After all, even trucking automation will not be a 100% loss - if nothing else, we'll see a rise in full-service highway gas stations to fuel driverless trucks. On the other hand, even 10% replacement of an industry (9 workers doing what 10 workers do now) is a big deal, and there are a lot of careers (legal, HR, document handling) that should expect to s…

If driverless trucking takes off, why would the gas station need to be full service (staffed with humans)? Compared to building an autonomous truck, autonomous refueling seems like the easy part.

Far fewer units to move and a much longer expected life on the hardware. Hiring a fuel filler is an easy retrofit.

Re: Destruction of large numbers of jobs by robots unlikely, says new OECD Study

#18
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If driverless trucking takes off, why would the gas station need to be full service (staffed with humans)? Compared to building an autonomous truck, autonomous refueling seems like the easy part.

Far fewer units to move and a much longer expected life on the hardware. Hiring a fuel filler is an easy retrofit.

It would also likely be prudent to have a human visually inspecting the trucks and able to perform small maintenance tasks. My car can tell me the tire pressure is low, but it can't change the tire. It can tell me the backup sensor is obscured, but it can't clean it. Maybe it didn't even notice it hit something/something hit it (like a fast, low flying bird) and now the fender is hanging off. Things that might need to be done in between distribution centers that would be easier for a human to check, at least in the short term.

Re: Destruction of large numbers of jobs by robots unlikely, says new OECD Study

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One for one replacement is a truly strange standard to hold to. After all, even trucking automation will not be a 100% loss - if nothing else, we'll see a rise in full-service highway gas stations to fuel driverless trucks. On the other hand, even 10% replacement of an industry (9 workers doing what 10 workers do now) is a big deal, and there are a lot of careers (legal, HR, document handling) that should expect to s…

If driverless trucking takes off, why would the gas station need to be full service (staffed with humans)? Compared to building an autonomous truck, autonomous refueling seems like the easy part.

Think of it this way:

Right now, to move one trucks' worth of cargo for one hour requires one man hour. i.e.: 1 man-hour per cargo-hour.

If you have a single human that full-services 200 self-driving trucks in one day, you have: 1 man-hour per 200 cargo-hours.

Sure, autonomous refueling is easier than self-driving, but self-driving trucks also makes the human relatively way cheaper to employ.

Re: Destruction of large numbers of jobs by robots unlikely, says new OECD Study

#20
post #9

Actual OECD study: [1] The study says that, for the US, 9% of people are at "high risk" of automated out of a job. (That probably means "replaceable right now".) But 38% of people are potentially replaceable. There's an assumption in the OECD report that the entire job of a human must be replaced. But that's not how automation works. We're seeing this in the more advanced law firms. What used to take a senior attorne…

One for one replacement is a flaw, but also it doesn't take into account that efficiency often times leads to more work being done.

Like accountants. Excel and other software resolved a ton of their work. You didn't see a collapse in the number accountants. They just crunch more numbers, do more analysis.

uber made taxi's more efficient and I now ride in one 10X as often.

>We're seeing this in the more advanced law firms. What used to take a senior attorney, a few junior attorneys, a large number of paralegals, and a big clerical staff can now be done by one attorney, one paralegal, and a lot of software and databases. The OECD study claims that the risk to people with high levels of education is almost nil. Ask any newly graduated lawyer trying to get a job.

Software has barely put any lawyers out of a job. There have been staff cuts but that is more because babyboomer and older attorneys didn't know to word process. WordPerect (and now Word) are the reason legal secretaries are a dying profession. GenX and Millenial attorneys find it easier to it themselves.

Like accountants, a lot of this increased efficiency just leads to doing more work to make the end product better. You used to have research cases in books. This sounds inefficient, but it's actually not that bad. The book sellers summarize and catalog cases. You look up the issue and see what cases there are, read them and that is that.

Now, it's all done in digital databases. But it's not really faster. The digital databases still require a person to read the case, summarize, and catalog it. But it also allows you to read cases that weren't published. So it's now possible to find better cases, but you gotta spend the time reading it. So instead of spending an hour to get 10 cases sort on point, you have access to every case. But it takes well over an hour to get the perfect case. You get the better case, but you spent more time. Maybe you'd need a team of 50 lawers to find that case in the 1970s, but nobody would actually do that.

Ross--that startup claiming to be an AI lawyer--is spamming legal news with press releases vaguely claiming it can do all of that instantaneously. I sincerely doubt it. There is a reason they don't have a demo on their website.

The only software that I know that is doing what I'd consider legal work is the machine learning applied to document review--called predictive coding. But even that is only a response to the massive amount of information generated in digital offices. Workplaces produce many times more emails and documents than they did 40 years ago. E-discover exploded in the late 90's and early 2000's.

And even that work had already been outsourced to contractors who hired reviewers--often in India--to do the big projects. It's reduced some legal jobs, but only jobs that were created by technology. You can't apply the machine learning to smaller sets of documents since there isn't enough data to learn from.

The reason the legal market crashed in 2008 is because the M&A stopped and because those mortgage backed securities required a ton of legal work. And then the overall recession made companies sensitive to legal bills.

Newly graduated lawyers had a hard time finding a job even when the market for corporate lawyers was hot. Because tons of schools opened up law schools to cash in. They flooded the market with people who had no business being a lawyer. Even in 2005, the median law grad made less money than a programmer.

edit: wow I really ranted here. embarassing. I'm actually putting off doing document review because it's boring. I wish I had an AI that could do it for me.

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