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Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#11

Post by Retric »

Inthenameofmine wrote: post #3
pieter1976 wrote: post #2

Haven't really fast trains (sometimes maglev) inside evacuated tubes been proposed over and over again. Trying to work out what is new here. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain

The tube would not be evacuated. The train sucks the air in front of it and pushes it around and especially below, creating an air cushion just like an air hockey, further decreasing energy requirement for movement. That way you also get rid of the air evacuation cost.

The tube would be evacuated on earth. Which is why they need a tube in the first place:

Mars

According to Musk, Hyperloop would be useful on Mars as no tubes would be needed. This is because Mars' atmosphere is about 1% the density of the Earth's.[10][45][46] For the hyperloop concept to work on Earth, low-pressure tubes are required to reduce air resistance. However, if they were to be built on Mars, the lower air resistance would allow a hyperloop to be created with no tube, only a track.[47] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop

The important point is 0.01 ATM is a long way from high vacuum. Pumps can get down to that pressure very easily and individual Pumps can cover wide sections of track.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#13

Post by Someone1234 »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #7
jerf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What is Hyperloop? "Hyperloop is a conceptual transport system in which passengers are loaded into pods and fired through vacuum tubes at more than 600mph (1,000km/h).... "Pumping the air out of the tubes reduces resistance, allowing high speeds to be achieved, potentially using less energy than a train."

The journalist is wrong/simplifying See wikipedia [0]: "pressurized capsules ride on an air cushion driven by linear induction motors and air compressors" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop

You cut off that quote:

> incorporating reduced-pressure tubes in which pressurized capsules ride on an air cushion driven by linear induction motors and air compressors.

So the tubes are low pressure. Perhaps not vacuum, but in reality so called vacuum tube delivery systems aren't actually a vacuum either, that's why a more accurate name for them is Pneumatic Tube Systems.

I'm not sure what it is exactly you're trying to argue, above you made it sound like the system isn't low pressure at all.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#14

Post by grosun »

wimagguc wrote: post #4

Fun fact, New York City's subway started out with a similar system (between 1870 and 1873, called the Beach Pneumatic Transit): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_Pneumatic_Transit

& London's Crystal palace pneumatic railway predated that by 6 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Palace_pneumatic_railw...

Not a roaring success though!

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#15

Post by wibr »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #7
jerf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What is Hyperloop? "Hyperloop is a conceptual transport system in which passengers are loaded into pods and fired through vacuum tubes at more than 600mph (1,000km/h).... "Pumping the air out of the tubes reduces resistance, allowing high speeds to be achieved, potentially using less energy than a train."

The journalist is wrong/simplifying See wikipedia [0]: "pressurized capsules ride on an air cushion driven by linear induction motors and air compressors" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop

Same source: "The Hyperloop resembles a vactrain system but operates at approximately one millibar (100 Pa) of pressure." That would be a "medium vacuum" according to Wikipedia.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#17

Post by unfamiliar »

puranjay wrote: post #9
shawabawa3 wrote: post #5

> Except it is really, really expensive. > Mr Musk says the cost of building the route would be in the region of $6bn (£4.1bn), an estimate most agree is extremely conservative. I'm pretty sure that should say "extremely optimistic". Musk's estimate of $6bn is over 10x cheaper than the high speed train line cost for the same route

Last I checked, wasn't the project over budget and hitting close to $100Bn in costs? Honestly, even $50Bn sounds like chump change for a project as ambitious as the Hyperloop. Nearly all large scale public infrastructure projects end up costing billions of dollars over estimated costs anyway.

It's better to spend $100Bn on something that is tried and tested, than spending $50Bn on a risky proposition that could end up simply not working for whatever reason.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#19

Post by Chathamization »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #5

> Except it is really, really expensive. > Mr Musk says the cost of building the route would be in the region of $6bn (£4.1bn), an estimate most agree is extremely conservative. I'm pretty sure that should say "extremely optimistic". Musk's estimate of $6bn is over 10x cheaper than the high speed train line cost for the same route

If I remember right, part of the reason why Musk estimated that the hyperloop would be so cheap was that he assumed it could be built on highway meridians for free, and the tracks were to end end far outside the city centers. It also had a fraction of passenger capacity and number of stations as high speed rail.

It seems likely that for the same amount of service as high speed rail, the hyperloop would be a lot more expensive.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#20

Post by m-i-l »

mtgx wrote: post #18

Why not create hyperloops for ultra-fast (yet relatively cheap in volume) trans-Atlantic merchandise shipping? Surely that would be a highly profitable project from the start?

Hyperloop Technologies is focussing on using it for cargo, at least at first until "the infrastructure is built and the kinks are worked out": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11668414
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