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Tesla Shakes Up Market for Lithium, Other Metals

wsj.com

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Re: Tesla Shakes Up Market for Lithium, Other Metals

#11

Post by goda90 »

no1youknowz wrote: post #9
ck2 wrote: post #3

There is no shortage of lithium, even the USA has lots of it (owned by Canadian companies). It's just they don't want to mine it until the price is much higher. Kind of like oil vs gas prices. But I am curious to see what the next level beyond lithium is for compact power storage. Lithium can't be the end of the line.

Where are we with the next-gen battery tech? It's like every 5 years we see some research lab announce a breakthrough but as if yet no real progress. You would have thought it would be a priority for Musk to research next-gen batteries in a really serious way.

Heck, I'd say I see an article about new battery developments multiple times a year.

I wonder if the delay has as much or more to do with economics than actual research and development. It might not be in the best interest of a lot of players, whether that's battery manufacturers, or device manufacturers, to produce something that has improved longevity if that means fewer sales due to batteries wearing out.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Market for Lithium, Other Metals

#12

Post by Arnt »

ck2 wrote: post #3

There is no shortage of lithium, even the USA has lots of it (owned by Canadian companies). It's just they don't want to mine it until the price is much higher. Kind of like oil vs gas prices. But I am curious to see what the next level beyond lithium is for compact power storage. Lithium can't be the end of the line.

No, not like oil/gas. World production of lithium is about a hundred tons per day, says Wikipedia, and that's roughly the same as Purto Rico's production of oil.

Finding another hundred tons is a 100% increase in one case and about 0.0% in the other, because the other case has already gone through a lot of scaling-up.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Market for Lithium, Other Metals

#14

Post by mchannon »

Lithium doesn't weigh much of anything (even compared to oil), so a ton of Lithium is a LOT of lithium. Since as a commodity it's never traded in metallic form (too hazardous and energy-intensive to get it there, and not much market for straight metal, even as an input to battery production). It tends to be traded as carbonate, so a ton of lithium carbonate still has a very small amount of lithium in it.

The article completely misses the fact that lithium is not the most important metal in a lithium-ion battery. More pounds of cobalt are required than are of lithium (remember, lithium weighs almost nothing).

Lithium traditionally comes from briny lakes and salt deserts like those in Chile, along with other valuable commodities like Iodine and Nitrate.

Lithium occurs throughout the US in ores like Lepidolite, but it's never been considered cost-effective to extract it. I've found a way.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Market for Lithium, Other Metals

#15

Post by djb_hackernews »

mchannon wrote: post #14

Lithium doesn't weigh much of anything (even compared to oil), so a ton of Lithium is a LOT of lithium. Since as a commodity it's never traded in metallic form (too hazardous and energy-intensive to get it there, and not much market for straight metal, even as an input to battery production). It tends to be traded as carbonate, so a ton of lithium carbonate still has a very small amount of lithium in it. The article…

> I've found a way.

Need help?

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Market for Lithium, Other Metals

#16

Post by excalibur »

no1youknowz wrote: post #9
ck2 wrote: post #3

There is no shortage of lithium, even the USA has lots of it (owned by Canadian companies). It's just they don't want to mine it until the price is much higher. Kind of like oil vs gas prices. But I am curious to see what the next level beyond lithium is for compact power storage. Lithium can't be the end of the line.

Where are we with the next-gen battery tech? It's like every 5 years we see some research lab announce a breakthrough but as if yet no real progress. You would have thought it would be a priority for Musk to research next-gen batteries in a really serious way.

Nice little round-up:

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/130380-future-batteries-comi...

The comment about protecting commercial interests isn't wrong, but there is indeed a threshold coming where that won't be a valid reason to hold the technology back.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Market for Lithium, Other Metals

#17

Post by mchannon »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #15
mchannon wrote: post #14

Lithium doesn't weigh much of anything (even compared to oil), so a ton of Lithium is a LOT of lithium. Since as a commodity it's never traded in metallic form (too hazardous and energy-intensive to get it there, and not much market for straight metal, even as an input to battery production). It tends to be traded as carbonate, so a ton of lithium carbonate still has a very small amount of lithium in it. The article…

> I've found a way. Need help?

Messaged you.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Market for Lithium, Other Metals

#18

Post by forgetsusername »

Arnt wrote: post #12
ck2 wrote: post #3

There is no shortage of lithium, even the USA has lots of it (owned by Canadian companies). It's just they don't want to mine it until the price is much higher. Kind of like oil vs gas prices. But I am curious to see what the next level beyond lithium is for compact power storage. Lithium can't be the end of the line.

No, not like oil/gas. World production of lithium is about a hundred tons per day, says Wikipedia, and that's roughly the same as Purto Rico's production of oil. Finding another hundred tons is a 100% increase in one case and about 0.0% in the other, because the other case has already gone through a lot of scaling-up.

>No, not like oil/gas.

Like oil and gas in the sense that if prices are low it stays in the ground.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Market for Lithium, Other Metals

#19

Post by hga »

adwn wrote: post #13
epicmellon wrote: post #2

Musk further said, "This is totally not related to why we want to mine asteroids."

SpaceX isn't planning to mine asteroids, that's Planetary Resources. http://planetaryresources.com/

Someone needs to get their space craft there....
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