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Cheap Solar Power

keith.seas.harvard.edu

11–20 of 101 posts

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#11
post #7

Wind and geothermal is good options as well. The biggest problem is storage.

Right, and making sure the base load of energy generation is stable.

We'll get there. I'd just like to make sure we remember that absolutely everything has a cost. The cost of anything is the value it has in its alternative uses.

If we're subsidizing renewable energy, we're not spending money on something else (and we're reducing people's incomes in the process).

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#12
post #7

Wind and geothermal is good options as well. The biggest problem is storage.

A big problem with wind energy in Germany is a very vocal minority of old people who think that wind park visually destructs nature and it looks horrible. Personally I think wind parks look awesome but there is a lot of opposition.

That's what I mean. Wind might be generated "for free," but one cost is what it looks like.

Another is how many birds it kills a year. (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-many-birds-do-w...)

That's not to say we shouldn't build it. Just that we need to consider what it costs before we do.

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transportation fuels example is even more exciting, IMO. Transportation fuels are basically simple hydrocarbons that burn with oxygen to turn into CO2 and H2O. There's only engineering, capital, and energy costs that need to be overcome - then we can run that process in reverse and turning our current transportation infrastructure carbon-neutral.

> run the process in reverse Does the fact that CO2 makes up a very small portion of the atmosphere make this hard?

One of the big financial problems for CCS (carbon capture and storage) is that CO2 is essentially worthless. If a market would suddenly arise for concentrated CO2, I do not think we would have much of a problem to fill demand.

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#14
post #7

Wind and geothermal is good options as well. The biggest problem is storage.

It was mentioned in the article that a worrying point with wind is that the costs have not been coming down. The cost of solar panels has been cut in half over the last few years while hardware for wind has remained roughly constant. Of course wind is deserving of further investment. As far as predictions go, however, solar is looking more promising.

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#15
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I particularly liked his point about bringing processes with a high electricity demand to those areas and cutting down on cost across the board. He gives aluminum, ammonia, and desalination as examples, which could do a lot for reducing costs of production while still overall "greening" the process. If they can take advantage of the cycling in prices, I can see regions like the American Southwest selling this as a bu…

It's not a novel idea. E.g., Dubai produces a lot of aluminum, since importing ore and exporting Al is cheaper than exporting natural gas. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubal

Hydro power and aluminium are a traditional combo too.

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transportation fuels example is even more exciting, IMO. Transportation fuels are basically simple hydrocarbons that burn with oxygen to turn into CO2 and H2O. There's only engineering, capital, and energy costs that need to be overcome - then we can run that process in reverse and turning our current transportation infrastructure carbon-neutral.

> run the process in reverse Does the fact that CO2 makes up a very small portion of the atmosphere make this hard?

As far as my brief research into it goes, it looks like atmospheric CO2 extraction is currently in R&D stages. With current bulk CO2 costs, it could become economically competitive.

So yes, it's difficult to do cheaply.

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#17
So if this has the potential to change the future energy economy, what are some good investments to make now? Should I be looking at SolarCity, who sell the panels, or the energy companies like Sempra, PG&E, Edison? Something else?

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#18
That's fascinating. I especially like where he's going on the cost of synthetic gasoline. I'm a little iffy on it (what's the source for CO2 by the ton? Atmosphere?), but if sufficiently cheap solar electricity can generate gasoline straight from the air at a price that rivals fossil fuel, it both solves the storage problem (gasoline is wonderful high density storage), and makes banning fossil fuel via regulation an achievable goal.

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#19
post #2

"Admits" seems a bit harsh, like he was doing his best to hide something from the world. By all accounts, it looks like he had written out a reasonable explanation as to why he predicted solar would not become cost effective. At the end of the day, if something doesn't make financial sense, it won't last long without subsidies from the government. The assumptions behind his predictions changed and therefore so did th…

I particularly liked his point about bringing processes with a high electricity demand to those areas and cutting down on cost across the board. He gives aluminum, ammonia, and desalination as examples, which could do a lot for reducing costs of production while still overall "greening" the process. If they can take advantage of the cycling in prices, I can see regions like the American Southwest selling this as a bu…

Cities like Buffalo NY exist due to proximity to enough water power to have an aluminum industry. I live in Minneapolis, a city that exists largely because of water power (although it's used little these days). So picking up and moving entire industries is viable.

Re: Cheap Solar Power

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big problem with wind energy in Germany is a very vocal minority of old people who think that wind park visually destructs nature and it looks horrible. Personally I think wind parks look awesome but there is a lot of opposition.

That's what I mean. Wind might be generated "for free," but one cost is what it looks like. Another is how many birds it kills a year. ( http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-many-birds-do-w... ) That's not to say we shouldn't build it. Just that we need to consider what it costs before we do.

If you check what bird conservation organisations say, they are generally pro wind power, because most of the alternatives are worse for birds.

They do want to avoid building them on busy migration routes though.

Amazingly popular talking point amongst hypocritical fossil fuel industry supporters and semi-professional contrarians though.

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