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Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

businessinsider.com

11–20 of 35 posts

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#11
post #9

Interesting, though physical residency must come in at some point, otherwise who pays taxes for the country you actually live in? But hey, if they start making good laws, I'd move there, as European it's very easy. But good laws means also lower taxes and a decent healthcare at decent prices.

> But good laws means ... decent healthcare at decent prices

I'd say it means decent healthcare, universally free of charge.

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#12
post #10
post #8

Imagine this becoming a thing. Where anyone could eventually become Estonia's resident with all the rights (and of course responsibilities) equal to the people actually living there. Once other nations would follow, then the borders would truly start to disappear because it wouldn't really matter where you are located. No more us and them, just people of the earth. I know it's way too optimistic and this solution pro…

Well tax laws apply to you based on your tax residence and your citizenship so this has very limited benefits if you are already living in a western country. Plus due to all the anti money laundering rules you will have tough time opening a bank account remotely.

Agreed, but I think these are all solvable issues, someone just has to make the first attempt at solving them.

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#13
post #11
post #9

Interesting, though physical residency must come in at some point, otherwise who pays taxes for the country you actually live in? But hey, if they start making good laws, I'd move there, as European it's very easy. But good laws means also lower taxes and a decent healthcare at decent prices.

> But good laws means ... decent healthcare at decent prices I'd say it means decent healthcare, universally free of charge.

For cancer yes, but for a back pain? It's very hard to make universal healthcare because universal healthcare is a very subjective term. The only way to make healthcare universal is to work out serious insurance plans and then make sure that what's not covered is priced honestly.

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#14
post #13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But good laws means ... decent healthcare at decent prices I'd say it means decent healthcare, universally free of charge.

For cancer yes, but for a back pain? It's very hard to make universal healthcare because universal healthcare is a very subjective term. The only way to make healthcare universal is to work out serious insurance plans and then make sure that what's not covered is priced honestly.

> For cancer yes, but for a back pain

Yes. Someone shouldn't have to suffer in pain because they work a low paid job, or are unemployed.

> The only way to make healthcare universal is to work out serious insurance plans

It's not the only way. The other way is for our taxes to foot the bill, as we do in the UK with the NHS.

The NHS is far from perfect, with long waiting lists and varying levels of care depending on your location - but it works, and provides universal healthcare to the whole of the UK.

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#15
post #8

Imagine this becoming a thing. Where anyone could eventually become Estonia's resident with all the rights (and of course responsibilities) equal to the people actually living there. Once other nations would follow, then the borders would truly start to disappear because it wouldn't really matter where you are located. No more us and them, just people of the earth. I know it's way too optimistic and this solution pro…

It reminds of the franchised countries ("Burbclaves") in Neil Stephenson's Snow Crash.

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#16
post #14
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For cancer yes, but for a back pain? It's very hard to make universal healthcare because universal healthcare is a very subjective term. The only way to make healthcare universal is to work out serious insurance plans and then make sure that what's not covered is priced honestly.

> For cancer yes, but for a back pain Yes. Someone shouldn't have to suffer in pain because they work a low paid job, or are unemployed. > The only way to make healthcare universal is to work out serious insurance plans It's not the only way. The other way is for our taxes to foot the bill, as we do in the UK with the NHS. The NHS is far from perfect, with long waiting lists and varying levels of care depending on yo…

Well, I have never seen a healthcare system that works well for non-deadly issues like back pain and I have lived in Italy, Denmark and Germany. Also, at the end of the day somebody has to pay the bill, so either you pay with taxes or someone else has to pay yours with his taxes. Considering population is getting older, people that can pay your healthcare bills are going to be scarcer and scarcer. From a practical standpoint, what you want is unattainable. If we focus on the right stuff, instead, we can make sure that we are all better off, while right now public healthcare is a joke and people end up paying the same thing 2 times (first public healthcare insurance, second the private doctor).

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#17
post #7

Seems like it'll be a non-starter for most sane businesses given the insane reporting requirements. we started to ask companies to give us more data. The reason is we wanted to get rid of fraud. Currently, all the companies in Estonia are declaring their B2B deals. If I’m a company and you’re a company and I buy something off you and it’s more than €1,000, we both have to declare it

How is this insane? It's just about keeping very clear logs of the transactions, right? I's not like in the US they don't know where my money transfers are coming from.

I guess it's the thousand Euro minimum? CTRs in the US are min $10,000, but that doesn't seem like an overwhelming hurdle when the transaction is already being recorded somewhere. Most people auto-generate this stuff anyway.

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#18
post #8

Imagine this becoming a thing. Where anyone could eventually become Estonia's resident with all the rights (and of course responsibilities) equal to the people actually living there. Once other nations would follow, then the borders would truly start to disappear because it wouldn't really matter where you are located. No more us and them, just people of the earth. I know it's way too optimistic and this solution pro…

The cynical read on the same statement is "therefore other countries will stop respecting Estonian citizenship to maintain selectivity".

Shipping's been done under flags of convenience for years, but I suspect a lot of people will be deeply unwilling to walk that road for residence.

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#19
From https://e-estonia.com/e-residents/about/

e-Residency does not confer citizenship, tax residency, residence or right of entry to Estonia or to the European Union. The e-Resident smart ID card is not a physical identification or a travel document, and does not display a photo.

Re: Estonia wants to become a 'country as a service'

#20
post #16
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For cancer yes, but for a back pain Yes. Someone shouldn't have to suffer in pain because they work a low paid job, or are unemployed. > The only way to make healthcare universal is to work out serious insurance plans It's not the only way. The other way is for our taxes to foot the bill, as we do in the UK with the NHS. The NHS is far from perfect, with long waiting lists and varying levels of care depending on yo…

Well, I have never seen a healthcare system that works well for non-deadly issues like back pain and I have lived in Italy, Denmark and Germany. Also, at the end of the day somebody has to pay the bill, so either you pay with taxes or someone else has to pay yours with his taxes. Considering population is getting older, people that can pay your healthcare bills are going to be scarcer and scarcer. From a practical st…

IMO, the real goal should not simply be triage. 'Saving lives' is a huge part of why healthcare costs keep increasing. If you focus on quality of life things like late stage Cancer become lower priority's.

PS: If we spent 5% as much on back pain research as we have on Cancer there would likely be a range of viable treatments for most issues.

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