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TTIP Leaks

ttip-leaks.org

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Re: TTIP Leaks

#11

Post by vog »

creshal wrote: post #2

Not that it's still not all documents, and already out of date: > The documents that Greenpeace Netherlands has released about half of the draft text as of April 2016, prior to the start of the 13th round of TTIP negotiations between the EU and the US (New York, 25-29 April 2016). As far as we know the final document will consist of 25 to 30 chapters and many extensive annexes. The EU Commission published an overview…

> So politics will probably pull the "your complaints are all addressed in the still secret parts / were changed after the leak, we pinky-swear" card.

Maybe, but I deeply hope that the public reaction to that will be either:

"Yeeeaaah, sure ..."

Or, the more diplomatic variant:

"How do you plan to reestablish the trust needed to make your promise credible?"

Re: TTIP Leaks

#12

Post by leaveyou »

tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

What you say seems quite plausible and I wonder if this scheme wasn't used before against EU interests. US has the ability to spy basically any person in EU. That has serious implications.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#13

Post by elcapitan »

I hope somebody who speaks Lawyerish will create a human-readable, per-paragraph annotated version of this (rather than the sensationalist editorial things that the media will publish).

Re: TTIP Leaks

#14

Post by _pmf_ »

tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

You can probably bet that the German government uses TTIP as leverage against future "irregularities" regarding automotive regulations.

The spin in Europe (at least in Germany) is that the EU is portrayed as being pro-consumer, which is basically a joke (ask any VW owner in Germany how they are being compensated).

Re: TTIP Leaks

#15

Post by angrypython »

Remember that it only matters if it's an american lobby. When Volkswagen lies and regulators change suddenly the rules to make these lies legal that's not harmful lobbying. When taxi drivers manage to get Uber banned that's not harmful lobbying, and european socialdemocracy is clearly winning.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#17

Post by Hermel »

_pmf_ wrote: post #14
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

You can probably bet that the German government uses TTIP as leverage against future "irregularities" regarding automotive regulations. The spin in Europe (at least in Germany) is that the EU is portrayed as being pro-consumer, which is basically a joke (ask any VW owner in Germany how they are being compensated).

What is a joke is the disfunctional legal system of the US with its exorbitant fines, out of which a disproportionate amount flows into the pockets of reckless lawyers.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#18

Post by lispm »

_pmf_ wrote: post #14
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

You can probably bet that the German government uses TTIP as leverage against future "irregularities" regarding automotive regulations. The spin in Europe (at least in Germany) is that the EU is portrayed as being pro-consumer, which is basically a joke (ask any VW owner in Germany how they are being compensated).

The spin in Germany actually is that regulation GENERALLY in the EU is working differently and that few want to change to the US model (less regulation to bring products to the market, but costly court cases). You can study the effects of the differences in many areas.

That it is not working in some areas and that there is a lot industry lobbying is another topic.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#19

Post by tazjin »

tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#20

Post by PythonicAlpha »

tazjin wrote: post #19
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

Before Obama was elected, they said the same thing about him and spying on US citizen.

Edit: Seems, I said something right here -- hence the many downvotes!

For those not knowing: Obama was much criticizing the spying when he still was Senator.

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