Surely Apple is going to face the same charge?
Apple doesn't enjoy the same market share, actually in some European countries the alternative to Android is Windows Phone for the majority of population.
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Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
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Re: Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
#12I'm waiting for the antitrust violation launched by developers.
With arbitrary reasons their apps get removed, sometimes surprisingly brazen feature copying by the store owner, and lack of humans or any transparency in the appeal process.
Re: Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
#13They aren't going to make it very far with this. Phones are now required to bundle these services, and Samsung ships phones that uses S replacements for everything (launcher, health, payments, music, app store, cloud storage, camera/photos, and a few others), yet runs Android. Not only that, Google provides APIs in newer versions of Androids that allow third party apps to provide all this stuff. When installing apps…
The charges are claimed to be related to defaults. As such the problem isn't that the apps can't be replaced (by the tiny fraction of users who understand and are capable of doing so), it's that the vast majority of users stick with the pre-installed defaults and google controls those.
Re: Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
#14The latest in EU tech money grabs - those failed banks aren't going to pay for themselves.
Re: Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
#15They aren't going to make it very far with this. Phones are now required to bundle these services, and Samsung ships phones that uses S replacements for everything (launcher, health, payments, music, app store, cloud storage, camera/photos, and a few others), yet runs Android. Not only that, Google provides APIs in newer versions of Androids that allow third party apps to provide all this stuff. When installing apps…
The charges are claimed to be related to defaults. As such the problem isn't that the apps can't be replaced (by the tiny fraction of users who understand and are capable of doing so), it's that the vast majority of users stick with the pre-installed defaults and google controls those.
As far as I can tell there is nothing in google's terms of service that relate to defaults. How do I know this? Because Samsung replaces every app I can think of with theirs.
- launcher - web browser - mail - calendar - keyboard - SMS/MMS texting app
Not to mention the entire "skin" of the operating system including added and removed functionality.
Samsung even has their own app store on the phone.
All of the above apps are very much the default for their type (when such a concept exists) and in some cases, like email and calendaring, you can't set another program as the default (at least not through normal consumer friendly means).
What "default" are you actually referring to?
Re: Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
#16Surely Apple is going to face the same charge?
I doubt it. You and I are both going to get heavily downvoted for this by the devout Apple fanatics, but it's unreasonable that Google is held to a much higher standard than Apple. Google gives away the OS for free (speech and beer), allows competition on the devices, but requires bundling of its app with its store (which has competitors). Apple not only bundles the apps, it explicitly locks out competitors with code…
I won't downvote you and I agree that Android is way more open, but I understand antitrust to be about monopolies. I don't think Apple is anywhere close to a monopoly position with iOS in any market, and I'd be surprised if they're above 50% in any European market.
Re: Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
#17Surely Apple is going to face the same charge?
I doubt it. You and I are both going to get heavily downvoted for this by the devout Apple fanatics, but it's unreasonable that Google is held to a much higher standard than Apple. Google gives away the OS for free (speech and beer), allows competition on the devices, but requires bundling of its app with its store (which has competitors). Apple not only bundles the apps, it explicitly locks out competitors with code…
It goes further than this. Android, being free software, can be used without any Google-proprietary code by anyone who so wishes. Running a 'Google-free' phone is not only possible, but practiced by many - without any repercussions from Google as the code is, after all, free. If the user so requires, Google-proprietary apps can be installed on demand, removed on demand, replaced or updated or whatever - under control of the user.
In jail terms, Google puts its users in a light security facility, Apple users are locked up on Alcatraz.
As to why the EU plans this action on Google (first) is a good question. It is clear that the wheels of justice are seldom round, and greased in strange ways...
Re: Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt it. You and I are both going to get heavily downvoted for this by the devout Apple fanatics, but it's unreasonable that Google is held to a much higher standard than Apple. Google gives away the OS for free (speech and beer), allows competition on the devices, but requires bundling of its app with its store (which has competitors). Apple not only bundles the apps, it explicitly locks out competitors with code…
I won't downvote you and I agree that Android is way more open, but I understand antitrust to be about monopolies. I don't think Apple is anywhere close to a monopoly position with iOS in any market, and I'd be surprised if they're above 50% in any European market.
Apple has a 'local monopoly' in that it is the only choice for those who have bought into the iOS (and, to a lesser extent, OSX) family. Combine this with the fact that many schools use iPads and the situation soon becomes clear: in some segments Apple has a remarkably high presence.
Now you can say 'but anyone who buys Apple devices does so with the knowledge that these restrictions apply', and that is certainly true. The same can however be said for anyone who buys an Android device, with the added factor of being able to select alternatives for those Google apps and services.
In other words, if the EU thinks Google should be prosecuted, then so should Apple, for all the same reasons - only more so.
Re: Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
I won't downvote you and I agree that Android is way more open, but I understand antitrust to be about monopolies. I don't think Apple is anywhere close to a monopoly position with iOS in any market, and I'd be surprised if they're above 50% in any European market.
Apple has a 'local monopoly' in that it is the only choice for those who have bought into the iOS (and, to a lesser extent, OSX) family. Combine this with the fact that many schools use iPads and the situation soon becomes clear: in some segments Apple has a remarkably high presence. Now you can say 'but anyone who buys Apple devices does so with the knowledge that these restrictions apply', and that is certainly tru…
Can you define a market that Apple has a monopoly in that a regulator should investigate? You've identified current iOS users, but surely that's circular? I don't doubt that iOS market share is super high in some segments, but do any of them constitute a regulated market?
In education the last I heard was Chromebooks are at over 50% of devices in US schools, and that's against Windows and iOS. I'm sceptical Apple have a monopoly in education except "tablets in schools" which again doesn't seem like a whole market.
Re: Google Faces E.U. Antitrust Charges Over Android Apps
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple has a 'local monopoly' in that it is the only choice for those who have bought into the iOS (and, to a lesser extent, OSX) family. Combine this with the fact that many schools use iPads and the situation soon becomes clear: in some segments Apple has a remarkably high presence. Now you can say 'but anyone who buys Apple devices does so with the knowledge that these restrictions apply', and that is certainly tru…
Can you define a market that Apple has a monopoly in that a regulator should investigate? You've identified current iOS users, but surely that's circular? I don't doubt that iOS market share is super high in some segments, but do any of them constitute a regulated market? In education the last I heard was Chromebooks are at over 50% of devices in US schools, and that's against Windows and iOS. I'm sceptical Apple hav…
Identifying iOS users as a target for Apple's monopoly is no more circular than identifying Google-branded (ie. Nexus et al) Android users as a target for a Google monopoly. Non-Google branded Android can, and often does use non-Google apps and stores so that segment can not be considered to be monopolised by Google. In practice the same is true for Google-branded Android devices as it is possible - and not all that hard - to swap Google apps for others.
As to whether I think anyone should investigate Apple and Google I'd say 'no', but that is not what this is about. I don't think Google should be investigated for the stated reasons, but if the EU insists on investigating something I claim there is at least as much ground to investigate Apple as there is to do so to Google.
Where I live - Sweden - Apple does have a large presence in schools. The situation with regard to IT in Swedish schools seems to be that there is money, but no plan. This makes it possible for 'driven' people to steer their local community in the direction they deem to be the preferable. Many of these 'driven' people have a marked preference for Apple products.