Does the U.S. Produce Too Many Scientists? • Hacker News Board

Re: Does the U.S. Produce Too Many Scientists?

#11

Post by akadien » Thu, Feb 25, 2010, 10:35 PM UTC

zeynel1 wrote: post #2

I think the education process is too long. Schools benefit from long education so the time a student can get to do "real research" is put further and further in the future.

You don't need a PhD to be a scientist and do real research. You need a PhD to be a tenure-track professor and hold a research position in many industrial labs.

The education process produces credentials. Curiosity about the world and the courage to ask questions (and lots of math and other technical skills) produce scientists. Same thing for inventors.

Re: Does the U.S. Produce Too Many Scientists?

#12

Post by muhfuhkuh » Thu, Feb 25, 2010, 11:10 PM UTC

megaduck wrote: post #6

We need to shift away from our dependency on the grant system, and the only way to do that is to make basic research profitable for private industry. I just don't see any other way to do it. What America really needs isn't more scientists, although that would be nice. What's required is more scientific training for entrepreneurs and business people, so that they can help shepherd projects out of the lab and into prod…

I've always used this example for those that think our medicine and medical care in the US are #1 because of our "exchange-based" health care system.

You'd be hard-pressed to name one cure to a deadly world-wide condition that a private corporation has developed based on solely their own R&D. From Diptheria to Polio, the cure or vaccine for the vast majority of diseases afflicting the world in any significant way were developed in Academic laboratories, usually under government funding such as NIH grants.

In fact, alot of our most significant technologies are grounded in academia, then later licensed or commercialized. Google's one. In fact the government's NIST technology transfer and Small Business Innovation Research orgs promote start-up researchers to use NIST resources such as grants and lab space/time to bring experimental technologies to market.

Meanwhile, companies are _usually_ punished by Wall St. for giving more and more toward R&D. Most public companies simply cannot do it for fear of investor revolt.

Re: Does the U.S. Produce Too Many Scientists?

#13

Post by anonymousDan » Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 12:26 AM UTC

zeynel1 wrote: post #2

I think the education process is too long. Schools benefit from long education so the time a student can get to do "real research" is put further and further in the future.

But the fact of the matter is that as our knowledge of different subjects advances, there are more and more things to learn before a student can get down to doing actual research. Together with increased automation of many mundane jobs as a result of computers, this makes a long education almost mandatory for people wishing to maximise their chances of employment.

Re: Does the U.S. Produce Too Many Scientists?

#14

Post by dandelany » Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 2:01 AM UTC

nkh wrote: post #9

A 2001 poll conducted by the National Science Foundation in the US revealed the pervasiveness of the problem. Results showed that: -Only 48% of Americans knew that the earliest humans did not live at the same time as the dinosaurs. -Only 22% could properly define a molecule. -Only 45% knew what DNA was and that lasers don't work by focusing sound waves -Only 48% knew that electrons were smaller than atoms. I can not…

The number of scientists and the number of scientifically literate people are two different issues.

It seems entirely plausible to me that the American education system produces more prospective research scientists than there are job openings for them, but that it also completely fails at teaching basic mathematic and scientific concepts to those who have no desire to be career scientists.