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Microsoft Sues Justice Department Over Secret Customer Data Searches

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Re: Microsoft Sues Justice Department Over Secret Customer Data Searches

#11

Post by daveguy »

KirinDave wrote: post #10
daveguy wrote: post #9

Does this imply that the Justice department can search your computer if Windows 10 is installed? Or does this just apply to data MS has on you at MS? (OneDrive, use telemetry, etc)?

So... there's no evidence the "Justice Department can search your computer if Win10 is installed" assuming your device is actually secure. Bad passwords, no supported integrated TPM or other issues (common to custom built machines) will comprimise your local device security and thusly make them the easiest method of attack. If served a lawful subpoena, ANY cloud service provider may be required to hand over your data…

Oh I expect telemetry would be of great use to them. What you have installed, what your using and when. Log information would be extremely useful toward matching a person up with a crime. I doubt it is just OneDrive data they are providing.

Re: Microsoft Sues Justice Department Over Secret Customer Data Searches

#12

Post by vox_mollis »

dcgudeman wrote: post #2

'Microsoft’s filing zeroes in on a provision of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, written in 1986. The company argues that indefinite gag orders violate the First Amendment right to inform customers about the search of their files “as soon as secrecy is no longer required.” Additionally, the suit claims that the law “flouts” Fourth Amendment requirements that the government give notice to people when their p…

concerned about the fact the Amazon didn't attempt one of these lawsuit earlier.

I have no idea why you're bringing up Amazon since the article is about Microsoft.

That said, assuming you're asking the question about MSFT: Microsoft has always been a lapdog of the Feds, as evidenced by handing over hotmail data simply from a pleasant LEA request, to centralizing and backdooring skype, to removal of the elephant diffuser, to jumping at the chance to join PRISM, to any number of chunks of evidence.

But now that data security is a marketable good (per Apple's example), MSFT feels the fiduciary duty to pretend to fight the Feds for profit.

Whenever a fundamentally evil actor gives a show of doing good, always follow the money.

Re: Microsoft Sues Justice Department Over Secret Customer Data Searches

#13

Post by KirinDave »

daveguy wrote: post #11
KirinDave wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... there's no evidence the "Justice Department can search your computer if Win10 is installed" assuming your device is actually secure. Bad passwords, no supported integrated TPM or other issues (common to custom built machines) will comprimise your local device security and thusly make them the easiest method of attack. If served a lawful subpoena, ANY cloud service provider may be required to hand over your data…

Oh I expect telemetry would be of great use to them. What you have installed, what your using and when. Log information would be extremely useful toward matching a person up with a crime. I doubt it is just OneDrive data they are providing.

> Log information would be extremely useful toward matching a person up with a crime.

As opposed to the information that the ISPs are already offering? Sorry, but your underlying networks are already in collusion with the feds.

Were they not, the telemetry might provide signals that wouldn't be more easily obtained elsewhere.

But it's also worth noting that the telemetry for 'apps installed' is just your license list from the store. We don't have a ton of evidence that MS is combing your computer for random executables and reporting that back on a signal, or passing up full untrimmed process lists.

Re: Microsoft Sues Justice Department Over Secret Customer Data Searches

#14

Post by daveguy »

KirinDave wrote: post #13
daveguy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I expect telemetry would be of great use to them. What you have installed, what your using and when. Log information would be extremely useful toward matching a person up with a crime. I doubt it is just OneDrive data they are providing.

> Log information would be extremely useful toward matching a person up with a crime. As opposed to the information that the ISPs are already offering? Sorry, but your underlying networks are already in collusion with the feds. Were they not, the telemetry might provide signals that wouldn't be more easily obtained elsewhere. But it's also worth noting that the telemetry for 'apps installed' is just your license list…

Good points about the ISP. But don't we have pretty good evidence for apps installed being tracked? Installed apps are certainly recorded with the windows install system. Login and app use are both recorded in logs -- I'm pretty sure when they say they are collecting general use information to improve the windows experience it means they are sending those logs back to MS.

Edits: clarity

Re: Microsoft Sues Justice Department Over Secret Customer Data Searches

#15

Post by nkw »

As much as it is generally reviled (especially by those who hang around the Internet) I bet the Citizens United decision will help Microsoft a bit in this suit as it reaffirmed First Amendment speech protections do apply to corporate speakers especially in the context of political speech.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-205.pdf

Re: Microsoft Sues Justice Department Over Secret Customer Data Searches

#16

Post by bpodgursky »

nkw wrote: post #15

As much as it is generally reviled (especially by those who hang around the Internet) I bet the Citizens United decision will help Microsoft a bit in this suit as it reaffirmed First Amendment speech protections do apply to corporate speakers especially in the context of political speech. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-205.pdf

Most of those who are against Citizens United do not understand how chilling to free speech the alternative would be.

Hint: there's a reason the ACLU believes Citizens United was the right decision.

Re: Microsoft Sues Justice Department Over Secret Customer Data Searches

#19

Post by cmdrfred »

bpodgursky wrote: post #16
nkw wrote: post #15

As much as it is generally reviled (especially by those who hang around the Internet) I bet the Citizens United decision will help Microsoft a bit in this suit as it reaffirmed First Amendment speech protections do apply to corporate speakers especially in the context of political speech. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-205.pdf

Most of those who are against Citizens United do not understand how chilling to free speech the alternative would be. Hint: there's a reason the ACLU believes Citizens United was the right decision.

So in a word where money != speech, speech is impacted negatively?

Re: Microsoft Sues Justice Department Over Secret Customer Data Searches

#20

Post by ocdtrekkie »

KirinDave wrote: post #10
daveguy wrote: post #9

Does this imply that the Justice department can search your computer if Windows 10 is installed? Or does this just apply to data MS has on you at MS? (OneDrive, use telemetry, etc)?

So... there's no evidence the "Justice Department can search your computer if Win10 is installed" assuming your device is actually secure. Bad passwords, no supported integrated TPM or other issues (common to custom built machines) will comprimise your local device security and thusly make them the easiest method of attack. If served a lawful subpoena, ANY cloud service provider may be required to hand over your data…

As a note "no integrated TPM" is common among retail machines too. TPMs are generally shipping with business line PCs just as Dell OptiPlexs and Latitudes, but not with consumer PCs like Dell Inspirons and Vostros.
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