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Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

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Re: Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

#11

Post by mbreese »

tonystubblebine wrote: post #8

Could somebody help with some background on the science? What strikes me as odd is that you put fuel in the fuel cell. One of the examples they give is using these to charge your hyrbid car. So, by the transitive property, aren't you putting fuel into your car? I guess I'm trained to think of alternative energy sources like sun and wind, so I'm thrown off here. What's the innovation? I can see that you're generating…

You put in a hydrogen source... in this case, likely natural gas. It combines with oxygen from the air in a process that yields electricity, water, and a small amount of CO2.

The key benefit is that the fuel isn't burned. It's converted chemically, so it is a very efficient process.

They have a good flash video explaining it here: http://bloomenergy.com/products/solid-oxide-fuel-cell-animat...

Re: Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

#13

Post by pkulak »

eru wrote: post #6
pkulak wrote: post #3

They say that 1 KW will power the average US home, hu? Yeah, so long as all heating is natural gas and no one ever turns on a hair dryer. Maybe they were talking about averaged load? But then they seem to have left out the 4 tonnes of lead-acid batteries you'll need.

Agreed. But --- who heats with electricity? (Heat pumps can be a good idea, though.)

I use a heat pump. It's 55 degrees outside right now, so I'm not using much electricity. I doubt I'd save any money heating with gas.

Re: Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

#14

Post by mustpax »

tonystubblebine wrote: post #8

Could somebody help with some background on the science? What strikes me as odd is that you put fuel in the fuel cell. One of the examples they give is using these to charge your hyrbid car. So, by the transitive property, aren't you putting fuel into your car? I guess I'm trained to think of alternative energy sources like sun and wind, so I'm thrown off here. What's the innovation? I can see that you're generating…

I think they just announced a highly-efficient natural gas electric generator. The question is just how efficient, if it's as efficient as the large centralized power plants we now build then we don't have to waste money on building and maintaining power transmission lines.

If I remember my thermodynamics correctly, the efficiency of a heat engine is constrained by the internal temperature of the engine. The higher the internal temperature, the more efficient the engine can be. This is the basic reason why we build as large power plants as transmission loss allows. With a smaller plant, the engine temperature is much lower for practical reasons, hence the loss in efficiency. (Many other economies of scale reasons.)

So if this device can really beat the efficiency of our current centralized natural gas burning plants, then this is revolutionary. If not, too bad for Colin Powell.

Re: Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

#15

Post by beambot »

mbreese wrote: post #11
tonystubblebine wrote: post #8

Could somebody help with some background on the science? What strikes me as odd is that you put fuel in the fuel cell. One of the examples they give is using these to charge your hyrbid car. So, by the transitive property, aren't you putting fuel into your car? I guess I'm trained to think of alternative energy sources like sun and wind, so I'm thrown off here. What's the innovation? I can see that you're generating…

You put in a hydrogen source... in this case, likely natural gas. It combines with oxygen from the air in a process that yields electricity, water, and a small amount of CO2. The key benefit is that the fuel isn't burned. It's converted chemically, so it is a very efficient process. They have a good flash video explaining it here: http://bloomenergy.com/products/solid-oxide-fuel-cell-animat...

Any idea about the relative efficiencies between this chemical reaction versus a thermodynamic process (say, Sterling Engine)?

Re: Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

#16

Post by mustpax »

mbreese wrote: post #11
tonystubblebine wrote: post #8

Could somebody help with some background on the science? What strikes me as odd is that you put fuel in the fuel cell. One of the examples they give is using these to charge your hyrbid car. So, by the transitive property, aren't you putting fuel into your car? I guess I'm trained to think of alternative energy sources like sun and wind, so I'm thrown off here. What's the innovation? I can see that you're generating…

You put in a hydrogen source... in this case, likely natural gas. It combines with oxygen from the air in a process that yields electricity, water, and a small amount of CO2. The key benefit is that the fuel isn't burned. It's converted chemically, so it is a very efficient process. They have a good flash video explaining it here: http://bloomenergy.com/products/solid-oxide-fuel-cell-animat...

Burning, oxidization of hydrocarbons, is very much a chemical process. It generates heat, if they have somehow found a way of making it generate electricity directly, that would be really interesting.

Re: Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

#17

Post by eru »

pkulak wrote: post #13
eru wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. But --- who heats with electricity? (Heat pumps can be a good idea, though.)

I use a heat pump. It's 55 degrees outside right now, so I'm not using much electricity. I doubt I'd save any money heating with gas.

"Sustainable Energy - without the hot air" (http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c7/page_50....) also seems to favour heat pumps.

Re: Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

#18

Post by andrewcooke »

teilo wrote: post #4
pkulak wrote: post #3

They say that 1 KW will power the average US home, hu? Yeah, so long as all heating is natural gas and no one ever turns on a hair dryer. Maybe they were talking about averaged load? But then they seem to have left out the 4 tonnes of lead-acid batteries you'll need.

I believe the idea here is not that a single 1KW stack would be used to power a home, but that several homes would run off of a single 25KW module, so that you only need to accomodate their collective peak requirements

if you don't all get up and shower at the same time...

Re: Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

#19

Post by bmm6o »

mbreese wrote: post #11
tonystubblebine wrote: post #8

Could somebody help with some background on the science? What strikes me as odd is that you put fuel in the fuel cell. One of the examples they give is using these to charge your hyrbid car. So, by the transitive property, aren't you putting fuel into your car? I guess I'm trained to think of alternative energy sources like sun and wind, so I'm thrown off here. What's the innovation? I can see that you're generating…

You put in a hydrogen source... in this case, likely natural gas. It combines with oxygen from the air in a process that yields electricity, water, and a small amount of CO2. The key benefit is that the fuel isn't burned. It's converted chemically, so it is a very efficient process. They have a good flash video explaining it here: http://bloomenergy.com/products/solid-oxide-fuel-cell-animat...

> It combines with oxygen from the air [...] > the fuel isn't burned. It's converted chemically

My last chemistry class was a long time ago, so this might be a dumb question. What's the difference between combining with oxygen and burning?

Re: Bloom Unveils Its Game Changing Energy Box

#20

Post by andreyf »

teilo wrote: post #4
pkulak wrote: post #3

They say that 1 KW will power the average US home, hu? Yeah, so long as all heating is natural gas and no one ever turns on a hair dryer. Maybe they were talking about averaged load? But then they seem to have left out the 4 tonnes of lead-acid batteries you'll need.

I believe the idea here is not that a single 1KW stack would be used to power a home, but that several homes would run off of a single 25KW module, so that you only need to accomodate their collective peak requirements

A well-sized electric furnace will use more than 25kW in one home alone: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html
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